Lets face it. Its Direct X. Direct X is all about the graphics and nothing more.
And its a PC version. I mean the whole reason people get the PC version of games is to get the better graphics, higher resolutions, effects, etc, that the underpowered consoles cant compete with. (and sometimes because people like to play with keyboard/mouse and dedicated servers) #dirt2
Like i said: The visual quality usually doesn't increase by huge leaps anymore. At least not in todays age and not 5 years ago not even really 10 years ago.
20 years ago is another story..
But today it's more about the small changes, it's next to impossible to throw out a complete new engine that "WOW"'s everybody. #dirt2
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was unstarred
on a completely separate note, it still pisses me off a bit that they put Colin McRae's name on this box.
its not a proper WRC rally game like the old ones were, i dont know if he'd be rolling in his grave over this game or not, but personally i think they should have just kept it DiRT 2 and not included his name #dirt2
Man, I'm gonna have to upgrade my PCs tessellator chip to handle all those new tessallations. Maybe Windows 7 is the right move for me after all... #dirt2
@Shin-san:
@Kakkoii:
Hmm, tone really is that hard to detect on the interwebs.
I was totally kidding. I know there is no such thing as a tessellation chip, but the word was used like 50 times in the video, and my guess is less than 5% of its viewing audience even knows what tessellations are. I thought the overuse of the word was humorous, that's all. On top of that, I just posted a comment about Windows 7 in todays TAY so I felt like that statement at the end was fitting.
Dirt 2 uses DirectCompute with the GPU to animate the large crowd. And uses Tessellation to makes them more detailed without a big performance hit. And multi-threading used on the side to make the whole game run better on multi-core CPU's.
Same stuff goes for the water and rest of the game. Along with better and more efficient lighting effects in Shader Model 5.0 #dirt2
@Kakkoii: My point doesn't have anything to do with technical aspects, my point is that this looks like DirectX 10 with PhysiX which runs fine with my current setup. #dirt2
@(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid!: PhysX would only be able to do the flag and water stuff. The rest is general purpose computing and tessellation. PhysX would make the flag and water look a lot better, but without a good dedicated PhysX GPU, you'd take a big performance hit having water and flags simulated using it. #dirt2
What's the normal life cycle of a direct x version? It seems like DX 10 recently came out and now we're already on 11? Maybe I'm just not a big PC gaming fan, but it feels like 10 didn't really get a chance to spread it's wings before 11 came out. #dirt2
@ttocs: With most developers targett
ting their games at the console market, older/cheaper video cards like the 8800GT run pretty much any PC game maxed or nearly maxed. I think the new DX version is a way to make hardware manufacturers some money. #dirt2
@ttocs: That is because the 3 version Jump from 9 to 11 is hardly noticeable unless like Fahey said, your just watching and not even playing. (Go look at Crysis, Max settings, DX9. Just as good if not better then this.) Now look at the 3 generation jump from 7 to 9. Astronomical difference. (Look at Half life, and compare that to Crysis)
DX versions are starting to just not matter. #dirt2
@(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid!: These updates are getting to be less about the graphics you see and more about increasing performance and easier development. Believe me, for a developer, these version still matter. #dirt2
@ttocs: Graphically DX11 doesn't have much on DX10 beyond the tessellation n new shader model.
DX11 is more about the coding under the hood, so GPGPU, PhysX, Cuda, Stream(if that was the name) etc.
So DX11 should be able to do everything that DX10 does, a bit more and with less of a performance hit.
And with the expected Win7 uptake compared to the 30% uptake of Vista then developers should have more incentive to use DX11 and just bypass DX10 altogether.
DX10 basically never got a chance to spread its wings as it was part of Vista. #dirt2
The addition of compute shaders means physics and other general compute tasks can be offloaded onto any capable hardware instead of just nVidia cards via proprietary APIs.
And general efficiency of the API's also been improved. Some things that took multiple passes can be done in one pass, and there are generic performance improvements that actually work not just on DX11 level hardware, but also Dx10 level hardware. Stuff that's very easy to implement too. #dirt2
@EolirinX: Yes, but there comes a point when new iterations of DX only working on certain GPU's because a moot point, because your no longer substantially increasing visual effects, your just getting a more efficient worker. While that's all fine and dandy, eventually you don't even need a more efficient worker, if the efficiency increase is in something like making water splash better, or making flags wave better.
From 7 to 9, there were huge leaps made that changed the way games looked completely and could be played.
From 9 to 11, the only difference is you need a 295 to make a flag go fwoosh better compared to a 9800GTX that looks arguably the same, with less fwoosh. #dirt2
@(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid!: The thing is, there's a lot fewer "pop" effects that can be done. It's mostly incremental stuff from here, not to mention ways of doing the old stuff more efficiently. Some of my developer friends have said they can do pretty much everything DirectX 11 does in DirectX 9, just it would require insane hardware to pull it off.
Also, there's very little reason to make software that fully embraces DirectX 10 or 11, considering the GPU in the PS3 is basically a GeForce 7900GT and the 360's GPU is a chimera of the Radeon X800, X1800, and tech that really isn't in any consumer GPU today (like the embedded DRAM). Hence why, as Koztah said, an 8800GT will still run most any PC game just fine at present... #dirt2
@Michael Fisk: This is why I think DX11 should of been held off until a "next generation of PC gaming" It would be more easily marketed, the performance gain would of been huge, and it would be much better all around then this slight incremental gains we have been making. #dirt2
It basically means you can do Crysis at a solid 70fps on ultra high instead of barely 30.
And you can do something that would run at 5fps currently, at playable rates.
So you won't necessarily get obvious and amazing new visual techniques, but you do get playable rates for using them, especially all at once.
Eventually you do hit a wall, but not until you get full photorealism with a huge number of items on screen at 60+fps consistent. We're not there yet.
And I will grant that it'll be less of a WOW! effect going forward, because it's going to be more about making sure the user gets an experience where they go "This isn't a slideshow!".
(Also, that 9800GTX is a dx10 part, so that's not a good comparison. Compare say, the Radeon 9700, which is a first generation DX9 part, to an HD5870, which is a first generation DX11 part, and you get the difference between not being able to run Crysis at all, and having 30fps) #dirt2
@-MasterDex-: Oh you will, this is the kind of game you can't put away after you start.
At first i was thinking " this is too much like need for speed, i don't care about a story or making friends, silly pop music, silly remarks from your in-game friends" and stuff like that...
The i got motivated to finish off the achievements of the first one, since in my mind it was much better, but the moment i played Dirt again i realized how great was Dirt 2.
I still don't care for this juvenile vibe they put into it, but the racing, the landscapes, the details.... this is a triple A game all right, even without directx 11. Unnecessary as Fahey pointed. #dirt2
@DrunkAus: my girlfriend only allows me to use my pentium 4 pc.Unless I'm doing my job on the other one.I'm not even allowed to touch it,even though I paid for it/. #dirt2
@DrunkAus: oh snap!.I meant to put that since I'm basically using a p4 with a gpu with shader 2.0 I don't know if it went that high.But we should assume it does lol. #dirt2
@★☆★ Waka ★☆★: In order to use DX11 in DiRT 2 which is basically what this article is about I would need to not only have Windows 7 but also a... wait for it... HD 5870 which along with the HD 5850 happens to be the only DX11 cards on the market atm.
@4c74f001: Oh yea totally forgot about those ones, I would expect that those cards to be great value for money if they are anything like the 4770. #dirt2
@(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid!: well I've been with her since I was 17.shes now my fiancee'.It's not that I'm not allowed to use it.It's that she makes it difficult for me.I get carried away when I'm just messing around on a pc.I tend to play too much games and it get's too much of my time consumed.
I wrote about this in that thread about gaming addiction,so she kinda made it her job not to let me into that again.Unlike what the others are saying I do have a dick!.It's called a compromise,and shes just looking out for me.Which I don't mind. #dirt2
Edited by (Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! at 10/22/09 10:56 AM
(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! was starred
(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! was unstarred
@Kenny: Mmmmm, I love colons!: Agreed a million billion times. There was a poll a little while back showing that the PC is the second most used online platform for Kotaku readers, so it would stand to reason that a fair amount of userbase are PC gamers. Having more PC gaming editors would result in more info on PC gaming and would help dispel a lot of the myths we see numbnuts spew in the few PC based articles there are.
I will be surprised if any developer will do the same mistake some tried with vista. This might support directx11, but I doubt any game will be released that isn't suported by xp for a long time. They tried to force people to upgrade to vista by releasing directx 10 games, but they flopped horribly. Soon after, we never heard another directx10 vista only game. It will be an itneresting experiment, but I doubt people will shell out money to support this for a while.
It's nice to see that at least some people have praise for this game.
I love it and I think that it is a great game- especially considering that you can play through the entire game, new and old content included, for free.
If I'm not mistaken, DX10 cards can take advantage of some of DX11's improvements/features, as well as Windows 7 RC having DX11 support?
I'm probably wrong, I've been out of the game for a while now, haven't followed DX11 or DX11 cards whatsoever, but Windows 7 RC lists DX11 on my PC with my GTX 285.
@Paradox me: Most of these new fancy DX routines wont be implemented because Microsoft and Sony are sticking close to home with their current consoles, and most developers are not PC primarily, and even if they are, most don't take full advantage because they still want to port.
Edited by (Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! at 09/30/09 10:54 PM
(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! was starred
(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! was unstarred
@(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid!: Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about it (which is why I pulled the plug on annual hardware upgrades and such) but I'm still kinda curious to see how its going to be.
@Paradox me:
DX11 follows the 'strict superset' approach, just like DX10.1 did with DX10: in theory, any DX11 game would run in DX10 hardware, but with some effects disabled.
One of the new features, compute shaders, actually was planned to work with older hardware, and is divided in multiple levels of features, for all hardware versions since DX9. Not sure how the devs. will handle it tough.
Last but not least, there were software-only changes too, improvements on multi-threading support, that don't deppend on what hardware you're using: as long as the game is programmed with the DX11 API, and you're running DX11 in Vista/Win7, you'll see the benefits.
@Paradox me: You aren't wrong. Some of DirectX 11's new features are implemented to take advantage of multi-core CPUs, which in turn helps use the GPU better.
10/22/09
says the stupid console gamer and/or idiot.
10/22/09
10/22/09
It's not like 8 bit era and here comes suddenly crysis making us go from 8 bit to semi realistic graphics.
I like the effects especially the water one looks really nice. And usually i'm not that impressed by small graphical changes. #dirt2
10/22/09
All huge leaps. #dirt2
10/22/09
Lets face it. Its Direct X. Direct X is all about the graphics and nothing more.
And its a PC version. I mean the whole reason people get the PC version of games is to get the better graphics, higher resolutions, effects, etc, that the underpowered consoles cant compete with. (and sometimes because people like to play with keyboard/mouse and dedicated servers) #dirt2
10/22/09
10/23/09
Like i said: The visual quality usually doesn't increase by huge leaps anymore. At least not in todays age and not 5 years ago not even really 10 years ago.
20 years ago is another story..
But today it's more about the small changes, it's next to impossible to throw out a complete new engine that "WOW"'s everybody. #dirt2
10/22/09
It's times like these that make me happy to be a PC Gamer along with being a Console Gamer, Pinball Gamer and Arcade Gamer.
I can't wait to test this on my ASUS ROG and SAGER systems. #dirt2
10/22/09
10/22/09
its not a proper WRC rally game like the old ones were, i dont know if he'd be rolling in his grave over this game or not, but personally i think they should have just kept it DiRT 2 and not included his name #dirt2
10/22/09
RIP #dirt2
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
@Kakkoii:
Hmm, tone really is that hard to detect on the interwebs.
I was totally kidding. I know there is no such thing as a tessellation chip, but the word was used like 50 times in the video, and my guess is less than 5% of its viewing audience even knows what tessellations are. I thought the overuse of the word was humorous, that's all. On top of that, I just posted a comment about Windows 7 in todays TAY so I felt like that statement at the end was fitting.
Sorry for any confusion. #dirt2
10/22/09
10/23/09
You'd already have one customer :) #dirt2
10/22/09
10/22/09
Dirt 2 uses DirectCompute with the GPU to animate the large crowd. And uses Tessellation to makes them more detailed without a big performance hit. And multi-threading used on the side to make the whole game run better on multi-core CPU's.
Same stuff goes for the water and rest of the game. Along with better and more efficient lighting effects in Shader Model 5.0 #dirt2
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
ting their games at the console market, older/cheaper video cards like the 8800GT run pretty much any PC game maxed or nearly maxed. I think the new DX version is a way to make hardware manufacturers some money. #dirt2
10/22/09
DX versions are starting to just not matter. #dirt2
10/22/09
10/22/09
DX11 is more about the coding under the hood, so GPGPU, PhysX, Cuda, Stream(if that was the name) etc.
So DX11 should be able to do everything that DX10 does, a bit more and with less of a performance hit.
And with the expected Win7 uptake compared to the 30% uptake of Vista then developers should have more incentive to use DX11 and just bypass DX10 altogether.
DX10 basically never got a chance to spread its wings as it was part of Vista. #dirt2
10/22/09
The addition of compute shaders means physics and other general compute tasks can be offloaded onto any capable hardware instead of just nVidia cards via proprietary APIs.
And general efficiency of the API's also been improved. Some things that took multiple passes can be done in one pass, and there are generic performance improvements that actually work not just on DX11 level hardware, but also Dx10 level hardware. Stuff that's very easy to implement too. #dirt2
10/22/09
From 7 to 9, there were huge leaps made that changed the way games looked completely and could be played.
From 9 to 11, the only difference is you need a 295 to make a flag go fwoosh better compared to a 9800GTX that looks arguably the same, with less fwoosh. #dirt2
10/22/09
Also, there's very little reason to make software that fully embraces DirectX 10 or 11, considering the GPU in the PS3 is basically a GeForce 7900GT and the 360's GPU is a chimera of the Radeon X800, X1800, and tech that really isn't in any consumer GPU today (like the embedded DRAM). Hence why, as Koztah said, an 8800GT will still run most any PC game just fine at present... #dirt2
10/22/09
10/22/09
It basically means you can do Crysis at a solid 70fps on ultra high instead of barely 30.
And you can do something that would run at 5fps currently, at playable rates.
So you won't necessarily get obvious and amazing new visual techniques, but you do get playable rates for using them, especially all at once.
Eventually you do hit a wall, but not until you get full photorealism with a huge number of items on screen at 60+fps consistent. We're not there yet.
And I will grant that it'll be less of a WOW! effect going forward, because it's going to be more about making sure the user gets an experience where they go "This isn't a slideshow!".
(Also, that 9800GTX is a dx10 part, so that's not a good comparison. Compare say, the Radeon 9700, which is a first generation DX9 part, to an HD5870, which is a first generation DX11 part, and you get the difference between not being able to run Crysis at all, and having 30fps) #dirt2
10/22/09
Whether or not I take advantage of the DX11 capabilities, I should have good fun. #dirt2
10/22/09
At first i was thinking " this is too much like need for speed, i don't care about a story or making friends, silly pop music, silly remarks from your in-game friends" and stuff like that...
The i got motivated to finish off the achievements of the first one, since in my mind it was much better, but the moment i played Dirt again i realized how great was Dirt 2.
I still don't care for this juvenile vibe they put into it, but the racing, the landscapes, the details.... this is a triple A game all right, even without directx 11. Unnecessary as Fahey pointed. #dirt2
10/22/09
But as for the game itself, looks fucking amazing, kinda makes me wanna get a HD 5870 lol.
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
Sorry if I sound like a dick there.
10/22/09
damn Sonata 3...quiet, beautiful...and fucking small LOL #dirt2
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
What will she do if you use a damn PC anyway, dump you? #dirt2
10/22/09
DX11 works on Vista too. You can download it already (official version from MS) #dirt2
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
I wrote about this in that thread about gaming addiction,so she kinda made it her job not to let me into that again.Unlike what the others are saying I do have a dick!.It's called a compromise,and shes just looking out for me.Which I don't mind. #dirt2
10/22/09
10/22/09
the lower, 5700 series as well as the 5850...but i *WANT* the 5870 :)
i've been meaning to get a new, bigger case anyway...i've been looking at the Antec P183, but i wish it had a side window :( #dirt2
10/01/09
Sorry, I'm sure there will be some games to really take advantage of it in a while.
10/01/09
Having just one guy cover PC games by himself results in errors like the 20 people below me have already pointed out.
10/01/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
2 DX 11 cards that are out on the market.
09/30/09
I love it and I think that it is a great game- especially considering that you can play through the entire game, new and old content included, for free.
09/30/09
09/30/09
I'm probably wrong, I've been out of the game for a while now, haven't followed DX11 or DX11 cards whatsoever, but Windows 7 RC lists DX11 on my PC with my GTX 285.
09/30/09
*Edit* edited to appear less douche'y
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
DX11 follows the 'strict superset' approach, just like DX10.1 did with DX10: in theory, any DX11 game would run in DX10 hardware, but with some effects disabled.
One of the new features, compute shaders, actually was planned to work with older hardware, and is divided in multiple levels of features, for all hardware versions since DX9. Not sure how the devs. will handle it tough.
Last but not least, there were software-only changes too, improvements on multi-threading support, that don't deppend on what hardware you're using: as long as the game is programmed with the DX11 API, and you're running DX11 in Vista/Win7, you'll see the benefits.
09/30/09