It's funny how Sony's initial presentation of the PSP as a gaming handheld plus didn't go over well, but this sort of creeping implementation has been much more positive. Mostly because the addons are things people actually want, true, but still...
I won't be able to take the 'non-gaming' push seriously until MS decides that all their markets deserve the same kind of support that the U.S. market gets.
Believe it or not, I think that's a good thing. The sooner people care more about the games and less about the kind of system we play them on, the better.
Well i think honestly that the term "Console" Has changed... It is just a natural evolution. I honestly cannot picture myself staying on a console as long as i do now, if it wasnt for the extra bells and whistle that my consoles have...
For example, i was using Twitter, facebook and youtube on my PS3 for about a year before this announcement from MS about the new Applications.
And on my 360 ive been using the other features on there too and and thinking if i should invest in the Sky TV too (im in the UK)
Though Kim's comment about "Home entertainment system" is something MS would have laughed at Sony for saying, just a few years back... Interesting huh??
@caddy_boy: the term console hasnt really changed in my opinion. i always thought the definition was a device designed to primarily play games that connects to a television or monitor to display the games. although its not in the definition, i think that one rule that never changes is that the device isnt upgradeable. sure, there may be small tweaks like adding memory as in the nintendo 64, or sega saturn.. but we cant actually go in and upgrade the devices.
i think that the reason we didnt have all this other stuff from the jump was because it didnt exist.. as soon as compact discs became common place and inexpensive.. it was a braggable feature of consoles. when film went to discs.. the same thing happened there. now were in a digital revolution for our entertainment.. less focus on physical copies and more on digital copies.. so now thats a feature to brag about.
but in the end.. all of these devices continue to be set top boxes that we cant change (legally) without an upgrade from the manufacturer.
Though what i did mean is that because of the advent of Internet and HDD in gaming consoles, the possiblities and limits of Standard consoles have changed. Back in the days, every 3 or 4 years, you'd expect a new console from one of the big players, But honestly now, i dont know when the next console will be coming out. It's interesting that Sony keep talking about the 10 year cycle... because What is to say that the 360 wont have a 10 year cycle too? (i doubt it, but with projects like Natal, you know MS are looking to keep the 360 around for some time yet)
Even if developer reach the limits of what the 360 can do in terms of disk space, thats not to say that the current standard of games for the 360 are bad. I think gamers would be quite happy with this standard of games and added features for the next few Years, unless the PS3 start producing games that make people stand up and say WOW (we have had a few stand out games for the PS3 and there are more upcoming)
@caddy_boy: i always thought the 10 year cycle meant they would support the console for at least 10 years.. but not that they wouldnt release new hardware. i mean look at the ps2, next october will be its 10 year anniv (here in the states)... and i doubt sony is going to cut the support anytime soon.
you would think we really dont have much further to go in games to hit that point where theres not much of a change.. but i dont even think we've hit pixar quality let alone photo realism. i do see that being a reality one day though, and although i dont really like realistic looking games.. things like cel shading also get better along with the maturity of 3d graphics. i still dont think we've seen the best.. and when pcs (and in the past arcades) start showing what they can do that current consoles cant even begin to try... its time for a new machine. since dev costs are high, console manufacturers supporting a console for 10 years is a good thing because devs can make a few ps3/360 games to get started while ps4/xbox3 are out.
but yeah.. i agree, the limits are definitely lessened.. and i do think that devices that were created specifically for watching shows/movies and using the internet helped to change that. it is kind of silly to me to get a set top box to browse the web when you could do it on a console that can also play games. another reason we have this convergence is the introduction of companies that didnt get their fortunes from games entering the fray. this is why i believe apple will be the next to make a console. apple tv is useless for the most part, but make it a functional gaming device that you can buy "apps" on your tv for.. we'd have a whole different story then.
They won't give up on Halo, Gears and the like. Those are what make people pay hundreds of dollars for a console/media hub/entertainment device...whatever you wan't to call it. No one is gonna pay $300 for a Netflix/Facebook box. Isn't the attach rate pretty damn high for the 360? Call it what you want, games will be the driving force behind sales and they know that.
When people are buying it for reasons other than playing games.
Eg: The PS3 could be easily considered a non-game-console because of the Blu Ray Player. Which explains the lowered attach rate, when people are buying systems and have no intention of buying games.
@Komrade Kayce - Soviet Attack Dog: Do people actually do that, though? I've never heard of anybody deciding that a ps3 is the cheapest/most efficient way to own a bluray player.
I guess it's possible, though. MS has a bigger problem, because I can't even fathom that someone would want to see twitter/facebook/last.fm on their tv monitor. If they weren't doing it on their PC, they'd want to do it portably from, say, an iPhone. Reggie F-A was dead right about that, I think.
Private facebook msgs on your tv screen? no thx.
Netflix, though, was a great idea. Genius. It makes perfect sense. They need to find a way to get them to make more movies available, sure, but I've used my 360 more for that than gaming in the last 6 weeks or so. (though I need to actually get around to a session of SF4 on it...)
When the PS3/Blu Ray players first game out, yeah. The PS3 was about 100-200 dollars cheaper than the next nearest Blu-Ray player. For realz. So you have to imagine lots of movie-philes who supported blu-ray going 'Oh well, might as well get a PS3'.
Even now, you get one or two people going 'Well... might as well get a PS3, since it plays blu rays and I guess if I really wanted to I could get a PS3 game at some point...'.
Nobody buys a 360 going 'SWEET! I CAN PLAY SOME DVDS! And uh... oh yeah, a game, I guess.'
Did I say people didn't buy games? Or did your reading comprehension fail when I said that once upon a time it was the cheapest Blu-Ray player out there, so there would be a 'I bought it just for the high def movies' market?
Epic fail on someones part, certainly, but not mine.
@Komrade Kayce - Soviet Attack Dog: I'm one of those guys who traded his 360 for a PS3 because I found I don't have as much time (or money) to buy/play as many games as I used to, but wanted to have something that could at least be a replacement to an HTPC. Loved my 360 no doubt, but the switch was made mainly for the BluRay and HD movies.
Also, @electricmine, there are plenty of home theatre design companies that explicitly advertise the PS3 as a part of their packages specifically for the HD movie playback. As for your comment about "could've said that back in '06/'06 but not now," maybe the recession came in reverse for you...?
It's still a game console because it's still self-contained (with the exception of the HDD) and plays disc based games without requiring installations.
It's a gaming console with additional entertainment options available, but it's primary use is STILL gaming.
06/12/09
06/12/09
06/12/09
Of course, that's never going to happen... so...
06/12/09
Use twitter, and you're not allowed to use Mass Effect 2.
06/12/09
Believe it or not, I think that's a good thing. The sooner people care more about the games and less about the kind of system we play them on, the better.
06/12/09
06/12/09
06/12/09
06/12/09
*music starts playing* "Take time, with a wounded han.."
Me: "Hello?" pauses to listen
Me: "It's for you."
You: "Who is it?"
Me: "2007, they want their joke back."
06/12/09
For example, i was using Twitter, facebook and youtube on my PS3 for about a year before this announcement from MS about the new Applications.
And on my 360 ive been using the other features on there too and and thinking if i should invest in the Sky TV too (im in the UK)
Though Kim's comment about "Home entertainment system" is something MS would have laughed at Sony for saying, just a few years back... Interesting huh??
06/12/09
i think that the reason we didnt have all this other stuff from the jump was because it didnt exist.. as soon as compact discs became common place and inexpensive.. it was a braggable feature of consoles. when film went to discs.. the same thing happened there. now were in a digital revolution for our entertainment.. less focus on physical copies and more on digital copies.. so now thats a feature to brag about.
but in the end.. all of these devices continue to be set top boxes that we cant change (legally) without an upgrade from the manufacturer.
06/12/09
Very valid point!!
Though what i did mean is that because of the advent of Internet and HDD in gaming consoles, the possiblities and limits of Standard consoles have changed. Back in the days, every 3 or 4 years, you'd expect a new console from one of the big players, But honestly now, i dont know when the next console will be coming out. It's interesting that Sony keep talking about the 10 year cycle... because What is to say that the 360 wont have a 10 year cycle too? (i doubt it, but with projects like Natal, you know MS are looking to keep the 360 around for some time yet)
Even if developer reach the limits of what the 360 can do in terms of disk space, thats not to say that the current standard of games for the 360 are bad. I think gamers would be quite happy with this standard of games and added features for the next few Years, unless the PS3 start producing games that make people stand up and say WOW (we have had a few stand out games for the PS3 and there are more upcoming)
06/12/09
you would think we really dont have much further to go in games to hit that point where theres not much of a change.. but i dont even think we've hit pixar quality let alone photo realism. i do see that being a reality one day though, and although i dont really like realistic looking games.. things like cel shading also get better along with the maturity of 3d graphics. i still dont think we've seen the best.. and when pcs (and in the past arcades) start showing what they can do that current consoles cant even begin to try... its time for a new machine. since dev costs are high, console manufacturers supporting a console for 10 years is a good thing because devs can make a few ps3/360 games to get started while ps4/xbox3 are out.
but yeah.. i agree, the limits are definitely lessened.. and i do think that devices that were created specifically for watching shows/movies and using the internet helped to change that. it is kind of silly to me to get a set top box to browse the web when you could do it on a console that can also play games. another reason we have this convergence is the introduction of companies that didnt get their fortunes from games entering the fray. this is why i believe apple will be the next to make a console. apple tv is useless for the most part, but make it a functional gaming device that you can buy "apps" on your tv for.. we'd have a whole different story then.
06/12/09
BAH-ZING!
Thanks folks I'll be here all week.
06/12/09
Seriously. My console just fucking sits around all day, playing games.
06/12/09
Love,
Everyone.
06/12/09
06/12/09
06/12/09
Eg: The PS3 could be easily considered a non-game-console because of the Blu Ray Player. Which explains the lowered attach rate, when people are buying systems and have no intention of buying games.
06/12/09
I guess it's possible, though. MS has a bigger problem, because I can't even fathom that someone would want to see twitter/facebook/last.fm on their tv monitor. If they weren't doing it on their PC, they'd want to do it portably from, say, an iPhone. Reggie F-A was dead right about that, I think.
Private facebook msgs on your tv screen? no thx.
Netflix, though, was a great idea. Genius. It makes perfect sense. They need to find a way to get them to make more movies available, sure, but I've used my 360 more for that than gaming in the last 6 weeks or so. (though I need to actually get around to a session of SF4 on it...)
06/12/09
When the PS3/Blu Ray players first game out, yeah. The PS3 was about 100-200 dollars cheaper than the next nearest Blu-Ray player. For realz. So you have to imagine lots of movie-philes who supported blu-ray going 'Oh well, might as well get a PS3'.
Even now, you get one or two people going 'Well... might as well get a PS3, since it plays blu rays and I guess if I really wanted to I could get a PS3 game at some point...'.
Nobody buys a 360 going 'SWEET! I CAN PLAY SOME DVDS! And uh... oh yeah, a game, I guess.'
06/12/09
On a tangent, though, the g/f and i use our 360 as a dvd player more often than we use our ps... don't know why that is.
06/12/09
06/12/09
Did I say people didn't buy games? Or did your reading comprehension fail when I said that once upon a time it was the cheapest Blu-Ray player out there, so there would be a 'I bought it just for the high def movies' market?
Epic fail on someones part, certainly, but not mine.
*cough*
06/12/09
Also,
@electricmine, there are plenty of home theatre design companies that explicitly advertise the PS3 as a part of their packages specifically for the HD movie playback. As for your comment about "could've said that back in '06/'06 but not now," maybe the recession came in reverse for you...?
06/12/09
It's a gaming console with additional entertainment options available, but it's primary use is STILL gaming.