But as far as World Tour's setlist goes...there were a handful of REALLY good songs that I'd love to see get pulled into the new game.

Hotel California, Beat It, Band on the Run, Do It Again, Good God (yeah that's right), Sweet Home Alabama, On the Road Again...

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1) Tweaked vocal recognition.
2) Ability to save bandmates.
3) Bring back No Fail from GH3.

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But changing the art-style to look more like RB is just further blurring the lines between the two.

They should be embracing the more cartoon style of older GH titles without going as over the top as they did in GHIII. Otherwise they're not going to help their cause.

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I love some of the stuff that GH did on some instruments more than i do with Rockband, but the replayability factor, the interface and the multiplayer aspects (except that aweful way of handling quitters) in rockband are way better.

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what kills me about all this is people(not necessarily talking about you here) have all these complaints about GH and how it looks and plays, but every step GH takes closer to RB they say GH is ripping them off. you really can't have it both ways. you have to either give them credit for "improving" or be okay with them being different to begin with. hating on them no matter what goes on is out of style, it makes people look like bandwagoning idiots.

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@SoulSiphon: I agree completly. All those little gameplay elements are what i love about WT and miss in rockband, the other think i miss in rockband are all the stats at the end of each song, because when you are on a playlist you only get to see your score, percent and starcount, but you only see your longest streak (is that how you write it?) on the last song you play...

And yes, people LOVE to complain about GH hero every chance they get for however reason, and i don't think it's going to stop any time soon. I agree with many of the complainers, actually, but hating on something ALL THE DAMN TIME to every single nitpick takes away a lot of the good points they may have.

And on a more positive note... love the new artstyle, still like the pixar faces and indy music video style on rockband more, but i'll have to see this in motion to form a real opinion.

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The interface is horribly messed up for online and the fact that you can't have to quit the people you are already matched with to play another mode, plus the fact that there's no voice or text chat even when they sell the damn thing with a microphone, or that you can't make your own playilist on online band mode, or have the songs aranged by dificulty bother me A LOT.

I also have my issues with rockband though, like the fact that quitters mess things for everyone and if you are in the seventh of an 8 song set lists and someone disconnects or quits you basicly lose the whole set, because the game makes you fail. And that kind of thing happens a lot.

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@SoulSiphon: imo, RB has the gameplay down right. so yeah, i want neversoft to keep moving GH closer to RB. i'm not complaining about them copying, i just want to have fun with my investment and i can't with the current state of it.

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I don't see how any of the GH:WT tracks are going to play any differently from how they played in GH:WT, minus the possiblity of them changing the physical instruments in some way.

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i do really like how they're going to allow you to have any number of drummers, guitarists, or whatever. that means no more squabbling over who gets to play what.

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At least they're taking a step in the right direction with DLC and WT compatibility. Because that game was tossed to the wayside SO fast after it's launch that a lot of people forget it exists already.

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And with Metallica, Smash Hits, and Van Halen all this year...the online community is further split.

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In Rock Band, if the band hits a unison phrase, all members gain twice the normal overdrive (aka one full activation vs. a half). This allows your band to gain bonus points by having more OD to deploy. This bonus OD is crucial, since a full activation is neccesary to bring a bandmate back from failure.

In World Tour, all four band members share the same Star Power meter. Each bulb on the meter is one activation, and each phrase equals half the neccesary SP to activate. Due to this, I believe a full band SP meter is worth 6-8 activations. Since the meter is shared in GHWT, any band member who activates SP will drop out of it after one unit has been used up. That said, unless you have a band member really dragging ass, it's unlikely you'll ever need it to "save" somebody.

Where GH hands out it's bonus points is in the streak system. As each band member gets a streak going, eventually the whole band gets locked into a "Band Streak". Once the streak breaks, the band is rewarded bonus points based on how long the streak was held.

So I get the feeling these "Band Moments" will grant an additional burst of points vs. SP. So while it's different in execution, it's simliar in concept.

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@Robert Orlick:

Well, they kind of should be in the same pose. I mean, they are playing the same song. It'd be a huge pain to create different animations for each character when they're playing the same instruments.

Also, how on earth can you a band of only 4 drummers in career mode. If there are any background instruments apart from the drums then this game will be fail. Well, more than it already will be :)

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You and I both know that they don't, but try telling the animators that.

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Igainme if eyhtvernig we siad was wtiretn lkie tihs?

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The solo is a consistent part of RB, and is a well defined and recognized feature.

To this day I STILL don't think people quite know what criteria Neversoft uses for where it puts Tap/Slide Notes.

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@TRT-X:

Here here! I am constantly amazed that a song like Mr. Crowley can have a 200 note solo connected by the purple Line, but then have a 100 note solo without, go back to a 100 solo with the line, and finish off without the line - all when it's a part of the same section! Seriously, I'm really glad I never bought GH:WT because the first time I played it at my sister's house I literally laughed at every major design flaw I saw in the game.

Whoever thought shared Star Power was a good idea needs to be shot. It just turns into a competition to see who can activate it the fastest.

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how many times has any one of us been struggling in a song, and because we struggled, couldn't hit an overdrive phrase to save our lives? then, after finally failing out, a bandmate had to use half of their OD to save us, leaving themselves vulnerable if they hit a trouble spot?

the shared star power system lets everyone in the band benefit from their bandmates performing well. a full star power bar is ten shots. any band member can contribute to it, and any member can take from it. so, if you struggle,as long as some SP remains no one else is stuck because they had to save you. and even if there is none left, any band member who hits an SP phrase drops it into the pot. in result, if you do so badly that you can't recover, the band as a whole fails. people seem to forget that you still fail as a band if one person does really badly in RB. the difference is that in GH, NO ONE HAS TO STOP PLAYING, sitting there with their dunce hat on, waiting to be rescued.

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like I said, the OD system makes players far more dependent on their bandmates to get out of trouble. if you can't manage to hit OD phrases, you literally have to depend on a bandmate to save you. what if others of your bandmates have trouble also? they'll use their OD at a moment more likely to save themselves. what about if they don't think you're doing so badly and use their OD for the multiplier? you're at their mercy.

the SP system drops everyone's SP into a pot to be used by anyone at any time. unless someone in the band is a supreme SP hog, you'll have access to SP whether or not you can earn it yourself, and you can use it exactly when YOU are in trouble. you don't have to worry whether or not someone is going to OD for you in time, or be able to save you when you fail out. you can just do it yourself.

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On the other hand, though, Overdrive activating does help everyone in the band so it theoretically would help the activator (whom you said may run into troublesome parts). Rock Band is also really good about making most of the OD sections easier parts, right before giving you hard parts, so you can prepare yourself.

I definitely see your point, though.

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Wow! I should really redo basic maths. It seems my addition sucks.

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I just think that it's a matter of preference, and if yo don't like something, fine. don't ruin it for those of us who do by making it more like what you prefer. I'll say it as I have said time and again. I play RB to play RB. I don't want to play RB on my GH disk.

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My reason for finding RB note structures more logical is that I find they go along better to the music than the note structures of Guitar Hero. You're welcome to disagree till the cloud comes home but this is my opinion.

SoulSiphon of Death Rides an Onion: I just think that it's a matter of preference, and if yo don't like something, fine.

I believe I said something in the same strain as this in my first sentence. Let me go look.....

"I suppose it's a matter of taste then."

Oh! Would ya look at that. I did. I guess this makes your comment null and void and nothing more than fanboy rage.

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It's getting to a point where GH is pretty much just RB with round notes.

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What's sadder still is that the GH series is more *popular*. Some buyers might even mistake Band Moments and Song Challenges as an innovative feature.

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If Harmonix had wanted to drill the music game genre into the ground, they could've released three Rock Band discs by now and gotten their name out there as the first full band game.

But Harmonix isn't like that, and unfortunately no good deed goes unpunished.

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Also, here in México, GHWT cost around 30% more RB2, which sucks.

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Hell, when i bought the WT kit was because the only way to get rockband 2 was buying the full band kit of RB1 at 150 dollars more than before so they'd include RB2.

I ended up also buying RB2 disk only once it went on retail in march. Gladly i don't regret any decition except for that aweful aweful!!! country song on the middle of the world tour setlist.

Now GH metallica... that IS a raping kind of price, i can't belive they actually are selling it that expensively here in Mexico and expect it to sell well (about 100 bucks for the freaking game only).

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I'm calling it now: Guitar Hero 5 will somehow manage to have a song that features Slash, Toby Keith, George W. Bush and one of the Budweiser Girls rocking out together on stage, and the Walmart crowd will eat it up.

Wait... that actually sounds awesome.

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@jesterspawn: Wellcome to wallmart may i offer you a free sample of this product derivative from petroleum that we process and cut into small yellow squares that you americans naively call cheese?

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Why don't they just stick with one version for at least 2 years, and do the rest through Digital distribution.

This shit is just getting ridiculous.

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you seem like one of those individuals who will just hate everything about GH no matter if it's better for the game or not.

honestly, who gives a crap if the new features are like what RB has done? no one of your type is giving GH credit for the single band game. you just say activision is cashing in(granted, they are), while when RB does the same, they're trying to innovate. seriously? just because RB is doing it on a smaller scale, it doesn't make it any less cash-cowing the franchise. it's sad. lego RB, anyone? who thought this was necessary?

HMX, who touted RB as a platform for music, had no intention of releasing RB2 when they did. they said themselves over and over in their forum discussions that they just wanted to add DLC to RB. RB2 quite literally brought nothing new to the table. it is very much RB1 with improvements that could have been patched in. Why did they do this? to keep the name of GH from commanding the scene. they even went so far as to release the 360 version early to beat GH to market, pissing off their PS3 fanbase who already had to deal with a buggy version of RB1. I don't know why these tactics weren't obvious to everyone.

aside from RB fanboys, those of us who choose to simply stay informed know better than to fall for the nice guy image they put forth.

My wife and I used to love RB to death, and just grew to appreciate GH more for some of the glaring issues with RB. not all of which we should start talking about here, but trust me, HMX isn't squeaky clean in all this.

don't get me wrong, I'll never give up on RB as long as the product remains quality, but for certain there is nothing they can do to outright command my dollar anymore.

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I choose to simply stay informed and remain impartial. we all should do the same. and let's be real about this. activision is cashing in, for sure. but neversoft cares to make a quality product, be certain of that. it shows in the fact that they step their game up for every release they make. they not only correct their mistakes,showing that they listen to(although not interact with very often) their community, they try to do something new whenever possible.

people really need to stop hating on them for the sake of hating. I think they are doing a great job for a team that had no experience doing this type of game coming into it.

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Of course they're going to say that they just want to release content for RB1, they don't want people to stop buying it and save their money for the next game. Come on dude, economics. They want people to buy impulsively, this is why companies hate piracy, no impulse buying anymore.

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And yes, GH is trying to catch on feature wise, wich is kind of a silly thing to complain about since people have been saying in a rather loud keyboard typing style how much better rock band is because it has this particulare feature that GH doesn't have and then scream bloody murder copycats when they copy the feature.

I agree that in many regards RB is better than GH, but complaining all the time about everything GH takes away the power of your complains.

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as to the issues of the PS3 game, I don't know them all personally, I have a 360. the fanboy rage I was witness to over various media because of the issues had with the PS3 version, though, lead me to believe it was pretty serious. I do remember quite a few people saying something about not being able to scroll through their music because they had amassed too much DLC.

and let me get this straight, you're saying it's okay for HMX to asically lie to their fans so that RB1 continues to sell, but wrong for activision to be blunt about the fact that they want to make all the money they can off the GH name? kind of hypocritical, yes?

and I won't say that GH is trying to catch up to RB because there is no catching up to be done. they are achieving their bottom line, making a crapload of money, and they are far beyond RB in that respect. any changes they make to the game now isn't because they don't believe they've done well, it's because they may snag more market share by addressing the complaints that are still out there.

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1) GH/RB both allow bandmates to save themselves by using their own OD. However GH does NOT provide the ability for one bandmate to bring back another bandmate either from the brink or from failure. I wouldn't mind it as much if GH hadn't dropped no-fail, since I could just turn that on when people who didn't play RB/GH regulariliy came over. As it stands now those people will just have to struggle along on a lower difficulty becaues they aren't able to practice the higher ones in a no-fail environment.

2) "you seem like one of those individuals who will just hate everything about GH no matter if it's better for the game or not." And therein lies the problem. I don't think GH is the better game anymore. It lost focus on what made the genre fun, and started focusing too much on repetitive disc releases instead of focusing on expanding the new product they put out.

I recall an interview with, I think it was Alex Rigopulos (or however you spell his name), where he said that while there would be new Rock Band titles in the franchise, they would mostly be about feature updates rather than a new set list. I think about the things that were added into RB2's World Tour, and then I think about the fact that GHWT still has the old-style scrolling setlist with its dearth of sorting features. I have trouble navigating the 90 tracks I have for GHWT, and am only now starting to feel that RB2's navigation methods are becoming cumbersome--at over 450 songs.

My personal problem is the degree to which Activision is diluting the franchise--they've taken on a strip-mining approach, in which they're flooding the market with so many titles that it basically becomes a fad. Also, I don't like the fact that Activision wanted money to allow Harmonix to patch Les Paul usage on the PS3 into Rock Band 1. Small things like that get irksome.

I really do hope the battery of GH developers they have are planning on overhauling the game features so that they're not just relying on name power (as in both artists and the Guitar Hero franchise title) to ensure sales. But I would say that, interface/gameplay-wise, GH does need to catch up to RB. With Metallica/Smash Hits, it looks like they've started retooling it (visible individual life meters, finally! At last, a live star counter!) but I love the platform concept that RB is touting so much (and hope they can follow through), as well as the FEEL of the game.

Like I said, my RB bias is fairly evident. However, I'm liking, if nothing else, the new aesthetic GH5 is bringing to the table. I haven't liked the 3/A/WT/M aesthetic one whit. This feels more mature. And I'm hoping the game itself will feel more mature as well, because competition is good.

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But guess what, all RB2 DLC works with RB1. All of those exported track packs work with RB1. If you can get your hands on the code even that bonus pack of 20 songs from RB2 is playable in RB1.

Long story short...the only reason you HAVE to buy RB1 is if you feel the updated feature set and 84 new songs are worth the price. Otherwise you can chug merrily along with RB1 and be non the wiser.

The fact you assume anybody who doesn't like GH does so "because it's cool" proves that you really aren't paying attention or staying as informed as you think.

Being a member of RB's forums doesn't magically make you smarter either.

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Activision and EA are both publishing games that people want to buy (cashing in as you call it), they are game publishers, that is their job.

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and no, I am not making assumption about you based on your opinion of one feature of the game. you have several, posts in this discussion, and I read them all before addressing you.

how could you quote me, by the way, then make a point that clearly is not what I said? I said nothing of whether GH is the better game, I said that it seemed that you made complaints about these new features regardless of whether or not THEY were better for the game.

all the features you mentioned as being justifiable features for a new title, outside of the HO/PO chords were not a matter of gameplay, they are just extras. they do nothing to the core of the game, and that is why I said that they could have been patched in. and even the above chords may have been able to be patched in as well, I'm going to stay on the side of caution and just say 'maybe'. even if the chords were not achievable otherwise, does that warrant a sequel? nope.

again, you quote me and go off in an entirely different direction. my comment addressed the transparency of HMX's public image, you just take yet another stab at GH. and as I said to another poster above, GH rakes in millions upon millions more profit than the RB crew is seeing, that looks to me like they aren't struggling, or catching up. it's more like tying up loose market ends.

and, finally, I never said anything like features=innovation. I simply said that neversoft improves the game each release forward, which is true. the only things I think they truly innovated with, I credited to them and left it at that. it remains to be seen whether or not the functions of the new GH. I reserve judgment, unlike some people here. In regard to the multiple instrument thing, you clearly don't see that for what it is. no, most people aren't going to own multiples. but hey, if I were going to play online...................

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You accused me of liking one game over another regardless of if it was better or not. Well if you did actually read my posts then it's pretty obvious to you that the game I feel is better is Rock Band.

As far as it being "actually better", isn't that entirely subjective? I've posted my opinion as to why I see Rock Band as a the better product, using its OWN merits vs. simply tearing down GH as some do.

Hell, I gave GH credit for it's decision to implement comapatibility between games....but you overlooked that why? If you really did know me as you claim to do, you'd know that since day one the biggest complaint I've had with Neversoft's direction is that multiple incompatible titles. So for me giving the makers of GH credit for that is a pretty significant deal.

As far as "hitting close to home". That's a great defensive manuever. Come out with the ad hominem attacks, then when they take offense (as they should when such attacks are made) you hide behind "Well gee...maybe I was right after all hmmm?"

Just a hint, people hate being called fanboys/sheep/morons regardless of if it's true or not. Using that type of argument vs. an actual argument regarding the product only cuts the feet out from whatever argument you are actually trying to make.

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Not just whiny...but spoiled-whiny. And yes, I have made that same statement on those very forums.

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If you don't buy the Track Packs, you are still fully capable of playing the songs in RB through the Music Store. This is NOT the case with the Band-Centric GH's or Smash Hits.

There are only two exceptions:

1) AC/DC: Due to the the band's dislike of digitial distribtion. It was either AC/DC as a Track Pack or NO AC/DC. And those 18 songs are fully exportable to RB proper.

2) Rock Band Country Track Pack: For the first time, this track pack features new songs which will debut on the disc and come out as DLC at a later date.

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so, in reference to the issue of the RB2 features being patched into RB1, I think they could have, you don't. stalemate there, neither of us nor anyone else here can be truly certain of that.

as far as the sorting thing, clumsy sorting in no way affects my experience with a game unless the gameplay relies on it, say, in like a role player, for instance. menus and selection must be neat and tight.

as for the things you would like to see implemented into the game, I back you 100 percent, there is no reason you shouldn't want the features you prefer to make it into the game. just remember that if they don't, it may be because they aren't truly necessary yet.

I personally like that they want to improve the game, but if improving means tailoring the experience to be what RB is, I'll pass. I play GH because it's different. otherwise why would I need anything other than RB? cosmetics like the independent rock meters and the star counter were not necessary for me, for instance. I know that if my highway goes red I need to step it up. it really doesn't need to go beyond that.

and the star counter? entirely superfluous. the star counter for me only gives me a reason to restart a song if I feel I'm not doing good enough. but since I'd rather just play the song until I finish or fail, it does me no good. not that these things aren't good to have, just not dealbreakers for me.

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@False: The reason I didn't like the GHWT art style was it tried to be Rock Band while also trying to keep the more cartoony overthe top elements we saw in previous titles.

Quite frankly, I had no problems with GH3's look (save for the singers massive chin). My only disappointment was that they overhauled some of the characters in ways that took them away from what they originally represented. (Judy Nails for example)

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