So um....yeah, we had some choice words in the past...you abandoned me and I called you a maggotry puss filled slut. Back and forth we go...
But I never forgot the good days we had together, the time you and me were holding hands or the time my VMU battery died and we rushed to the nearest Radio Shack to get fresh ones. Yes, they were expensive you asshole...I was living on an allowance back then.
Then...you changed...you took Sonic and made him a dancing corpse on the ENEMY side!! You changed him into a werehog and slowly began to tune me out, the bitter sting of betrayal echoed in each hard pressed keystroke followed by a massive swig of Jim Bean. It was how I coped.
You would come back to me now and then, looking dapper and suave, showing me games of promise but they always falter and thus riling my simple female anger. And I could see inside...the hurt and age took it's toll on you. I couldn't let you in to see my new life because I was already rolling Katamari the size of the Prius with my new love...I couldn't let you see that. The guilt was too strong...
Now, things are different, the one I loved in lieu of you is changing...you two are talking to each other. You both are showing your fangs and getting tough and I can't choose between you. So now, you both can come at me.
And that's fine, I'm a talented girl...the thing with the biscuits...yeah, I added ham to the mix.
In short my beloved...I'll end this quote from Jane Austin.
Of the Yakuza games, the notes state: "Could put Japanese games directly on PSN for download in a special Japanese Import section (pricing $9.99 to $39.99 for full game). Might need to localize menus at least with subtitles. SCEA interested in helping on MKTG side if they can have period of exclusivity."
Like I said in the earlier post: Shenmue 1 & 2 become huge hits as PS3 DLC. Shenmue 3 goes into production & is released as a massive, 2-disc Blu-Ray sequel to end all sequels. It's a 200 hour+ epic with a budget to put most Hollywood movies to shame. The saga is finally complete and U.S. finally gets Universal Health Care, using the unparalleled profit of the sequel!
@Sloopydrew: I know I'm not talking about Sega, but I spent years and years dreaming about a Street Fighter sequel and IV happened. Who knows, maybe Sega will release a new Shenmue someday.
@Lucas Reis: If they're willing to put money into a new franchise with a woman in sexy glasses and a magic boot, they have the courage to do try just about anything. Hell, they made Sonic a werewolf. After that -- Shenmue 3 comes off as the sanest idea in the world.
@shaunmcilroy: I just think Sony wants to advertise their exclusives if SEGA isn't. The other Yakuza games and Valkyria Chronicles got no advertisement out of SEGA so it just sounds like Sony is going to step in and do so if they can.
Would love to see a Japanese 'Import' section added. Still want to know what's going on with Yakuza 3 and if 1UP's report is true about it hitting the west.
As for the Aliens: Colonial Marines tidbit, the first thing that comes to mind is a motion tracker by using the PSP's screen.
EDIT: Another interesting note is that they referred to Valkyria Chronicles 2 as 'Valkyria 1937'. Makes me wonder if they listened to fan feedback about the jump to PSP and will relabel it as a sidestory/spin-off instead.
I still wonder why Sega hasn't done what the fans want; they're not exactly what one would call demanding, nor would it increase developement costs. What fans want in a new Sonic game:
1. 2D gameplay, with possible exception of bonuslevels
2. Visual style isn't that important at all: they could keep the current 3D look, revert back to 2D or even try something cell-shading.
3. Story: Robotnik needs the 7 Chaos Emeralds and/or Master Emerald to power random doomsday device to conquer world, Sonic (and friends?) try to stop him. No new character taht will turn out to be the final boss, just Robotnik.
4. Only put in other playable characters in they dont radically change the experience.
5. Keep things as simple as possible. Example: no need for a worldmap if you can just have "X Zone, Act 1. X Zone, Act 2. X Zone, Boss act."
Oh, and realize the only addition to the series after the original trilogy/tetralogy people liked were the Chao.You'd think they would've done this on a console again by now
It's all about money. We on kotaku are not nearly as loud as 4 million sugar-sucking 9-year-olds who are currently growing up with Sonic X. Think about that. Growing up with Sonic X. Now consider that the more recent glut of Sonic games, since about Sonic Heroes, are resembling kids cartoons even more with each game. Terrible voice acting, nonsense throwaway story and simplistic gameplay with no hidden complex level of mastery or challenge. The bottom line here is that since Sonic Adventure 2 became a Gamecube title and the pre-teens and younger got wind of Sonic v. Shadow, Sega sort of stumbled into this kiddy pool and now there's one foot in and one foot out. Look no further than Sonic Unleashed to see my point. They got me to buy it, didn't they? Because I, probably like you, thought the daytime levels might have been worth the 50 bucks (for the record, I thought they had a lot of potential and some were downright fun).
Going backwards in time, like what you say they should do (and don't get me wrong, I would be first in line for Sonic 4 with a sleeping bag and a pillow), is a way to get an older generation to catch on to your product. Problem, competition is so fierce in that market that its a risk they just don't feel they can afford to take. Even a "simple" game like you and I would love to have would cost a lot to make if they're going to do that fanservice correctly, a la Mega Man 9. Sonic Team can only do one or two things at a time anyway. They're growing in popularity with little people and falling away with bigger people. So with one foot in the kiddy pool and one foot on dry land, the water's nice and warm on a hot day that is the current economic climate.
We, the loudmouth minority of the gaming community, are just the ass end of a risk assessment. It's a tough break, but don't hold your breath for this game of your dreams or you may not live to comment tomorrow.
The only hope we have is that Sonic will go through one of those "growing up" phases in order to keep the attention of the market they already have as they grow older. To do that, they won't be able to skimp on the gameplay and maximize their profits at the same time. And even though the cycle will inevitably repeat and SuperSonik Jr. will complain about the same things we have, there may be a few years where we can all come up for air and appreciate a more complex and mature take on Sonic. And by "more complex and mature", I am referring to, of course, something similar to the glory days of old that you and I so desperately pine for.
@SuperSonik: "And by "more complex and mature", I am referring to, of course, something similar to the glory days of old that you and I so desperately pine for."
"The bottom line here is that since Sonic Adventure 2 became a Gamecube title and the pre-teens and younger got wind of Sonic v. Shadow, Sega sort of stumbled into this kiddy pool and now there's one foot in and one foot out."
lol, I'm sorry, but I just can't take your post seriously when you're implying that the old Sonic games were somehow more mature than the ones we have now. You played as anthropomorphic hedgehog that was blue, ran really fast, loved chili dogs, and was somehow able to convert giant floating rings into something that protected him from harm. You fought an evil genius and his robots alongside other anthropomorphic animals.
...
The majority of people who play Sonic games in the early generations? Kids. The majority of people who play Sonic games in the current generation? Kids. I don't know where you're getting the idea what Sonic was a mature game for mature gamers (such as yourself, right?). Take Sega's advertising a little too seriously back then?
You're missing my point completely to start a new and pointless argument. I don't mean mature like "grown up with guns and tattoos" mature. Of course a talking, running hedgehog with his own cartoons isn't mature in that sense. Maybe I should have spelled it out. Would "raw" or "distilled" be a better choice?
Gameplay has changed over those years and with it has gone the trials and tribulations of "GAME OVER" and, heaven forbid, running out of rings, which is pretty hard to do past since Sonic 2. Gone are the times where you had to stop and jump on an enemy to kill it. Maybe even dodge their attack (OMG HOW DO I DO THAT?). You just boost right through them now. Players are coddled with tutorials and infinite continues. Why bother including a manual these days?
What's more, gone are the masterwork 16-bit soundtracks of catchy and intricate stage themes, replaced by electric power chords and swelling instrumentation that is undoubtedly less unique and memorable that it ever was "back in the day". It's just another example of how working with less has, in many minds, produced much more.
The gameplay is what is mature. It's mature in its simplicity. It's a challenge of player versus game and not some happy trip down the yellow-brick road together like today's hand-holding adventures. And though sonic was never really that hard since Sonic 2, it was fun for a lot of the same reasons.
@란: Oh hells yeah! Throw out the weird stuff they keep tacking on in some strange attempts to add in story and just focus on polishing the controls and level design. They should at least try making a Downloadable Sonic game that eschews story entirely and focuses solely on fast paced Sonic action. It could be a short game, a sort of experiment on Sega's part that would confirm that the consumers don't care about some rehashing of a King Arthur tale or even Sonic talking to other characters. We want arcade action! And no more adding in superfluous gimmicks like a sword or a werewolf!!!
@EmeraldStorm: A downloadable adventure, a la Mega Man 9, might be a possibility if they outsource the job outside Sonic Team... which SEGA has gone on record saying they will never do.
I say they just pay the Mega Man 9 guys (did Capcom do it in house?) and split the winnings. Of which there are sure to be plenty.
SEGA, I still love you. Thank you for making House of the Dead Overkill. Even though a lot of people didn´t play it and criticize it before playing it, it´s still a GREAT FUN GAME! Thanks a lot, I even forgot the fact that you guys still make shitty Sonic games after that...
if Sega wants to utilize the ex-Clover devs, they need to get them focused on something they've had some success with in the past...an Okami-style game, Viewtiful Joe. Instead they gave us a God Hand: Black/White/Red Slapstick Edition. That's totally awesome and all, but it was WAY too niche to be a big seller.
I have hopes for Bayonetta and Inifinite Space (even if I can't tell how the heck you actually play it), but they need to get back on some palatable content QUICK or they're going to fold again.
Can't we at least have Yakuza 3 with just the English subtitles? We're not asking you to record voice-overs or even provide subs for a dozen languages, English would be enough - most Europeans understand it, and I've been told that North-Americans have a passable knowledge of it, too.
@Antiterra: Most people (inluding me) i know, dont want english gametext (voice doesnt matter) because if they play a game, they want to relaxe and not stress their breain with translating the text "on the fly" to their native language.
And that is just speaking for the people who actually can understand english.
The rest (which is the bigest part) of the people can only "shool english" which is only good enough for arcade games...
@KotakuFreund: Most people you know, maybe. It's pretty much the opposite among people I know, since English translations are usually the best (COD4 in French is atrocious, and the couple of games I played in Italian weren't too glorious either).
IMO, if Yakuza 3 were released with subtitles, the kind of gamers who are waiting for this game would make the effort, even if they aren't perfectly fluent in English.
Now, of course the ideal solution for Western gamers would be a full localisation in 4 or 5 major languages. But if the choice is between English subs or nothing at all, I say bring on the subs.
It's really a matter of how much money Sega would be willing to invest on localisation (should they decide to go ahead with an international release, that is...).
@Yossarian: I offered ebay tips on lifehacker. Took me a while to find out how I got it since I mostly just comment here! I'll keep an eye out for you myself just for kicks.
Serious question for you all: Do people actually remember SEGA fondly for their actual games (aside from the hedgehog)? Or do people remember them fondly because of their consoles, and the good memories associated from playing the entire library of games?
For example, do you think you might be giving SEGA more love than they deserve because you played lots of NHL 94 on the Genesis, and now you equate good gaming fun with the SEGA brand?
@Yossarian: No, at least in my case, I don't believe my nostalgic love for Sega is misplaced. Many of their games are among my favourite classics; Hang on, Afterburner 2, Outrun, Space Harrier, Shinobi, Thunder Blade, Nights, Virtua Fighter and Shenmue are all excellent games and many under the watchful eyes of Yu Suzuki.
Now however, Yu has been laying low and some of their recent good games have been overlooked in rants because of Sonic hate and Yakuza 3 envy, etc. They're a great software developer still, I just think they've slightly lost their way.
@Yossarian: Streets of Rage I, II, III. Outrun. Space Harrier. Afterburner. Columns. Gain Ground. Golden Axe I and II. Shinobi/Shadow Dancer. Toejam and Earl I and II. Phantasy Star Series. Ecco I and II. And that's just pre-Saturn.
@mrkinder @-MasterDex-: I'm definitely not downplaying their past lineups (although they are nowhere near as prolific now). I will admit that I'd have to look up a lot of the list to remember it, though. Both of you just spat out a dozen titles that are worth remembering them fondly for.
I would say, though, that Afterburner, Outrun, Golden Axe, and Shinobi I remember for the arcade versions. That doesn't discount the fact that they were great games by SEGA, but they won't be recapturing the extreme awesomeness that was the full motion Afterburner game.
@Yossarian: Serious answer: I remember them fondly because of games like Shining Force I & II, Skies Of Arcadia (SEQUEL WANTED FFS!!!), Shenmue, Sonic, Alex Kidd In Shinobi World, Streets Of Rage, Golden Axe, Shinobi... And I'm only counting the games developed by their own studios, not merely published by them (Landstalker, Ecco, etc.).
@Yossarian: Sega has a stellar reputation as a game developer for a reason. That reputation may have suffered after the calamitous years following the Dreamcast, but even then we are still getting quality games. It's just easier for the haters to target the flood of luckluster and hit-or-miss Sonic games which bolster the company's bottom line.
@Yossarian: A bit of both for me. Dreamcast was the last console I owned that I actually enjoyed having one of. Nothing I own these days is anything more than a box I put discs into. Perhaps that's for the best? I don't know.
@Yossarian: Interesting question.
I remember SEGA fondly because of their games - many of those games defined my childhood experience with interactive media. I would run down a list of games, but I'm sure you know what they are already.
It wasn't just the games, though. Like Hayes said, SEGA took risks (and copied Nintendo more than a fair bit :P ) with their games and their corporate structure. My favorite SEGA era began with the NAOMI; shortly after its introduction SEGA gave actual identities to its AM development teams to encourage competition in development (the birth of Smilebit, Overworks, WOW, etc.). This was an exciting time and many great titles were produced. This is the SEGA I fondly remember. I'd like to see a third renaissance from them someday.
@n00b_pwner: I never warmed up to Ristar but I'll never forget the sheer amount of marketing they did for it, it was as if they wanted Ristar to replace Sonic but it seemed to just disappear into the background.
09/22/09
no matter what Sega does/announces you all act like bitter exes.
news flash: Sonic games were never for T or M-rated purposes, but they are still enjoyed by all audiences.
09/22/09
The butthurt is still so strong...recovery takes time.
09/22/09
... and yes, once again, I have employed the super-quote.
09/22/09
Dear Sega,
Hello,
So um....yeah, we had some choice words in the past...you abandoned me and I called you a maggotry puss filled slut. Back and forth we go...
But I never forgot the good days we had together, the time you and me were holding hands or the time my VMU battery died and we rushed to the nearest Radio Shack to get fresh ones. Yes, they were expensive you asshole...I was living on an allowance back then.
Then...you changed...you took Sonic and made him a dancing corpse on the ENEMY side!! You changed him into a werehog and slowly began to tune me out, the bitter sting of betrayal echoed in each hard pressed keystroke followed by a massive swig of Jim Bean. It was how I coped.
You would come back to me now and then, looking dapper and suave, showing me games of promise but they always falter and thus riling my simple female anger. And I could see inside...the hurt and age took it's toll on you. I couldn't let you in to see my new life because I was already rolling Katamari the size of the Prius with my new love...I couldn't let you see that. The guilt was too strong...
Now, things are different, the one I loved in lieu of you is changing...you two are talking to each other. You both are showing your fangs and getting tough and I can't choose between you. So now, you both can come at me.
And that's fine, I'm a talented girl...the thing with the biscuits...yeah, I added ham to the mix.
In short my beloved...I'll end this quote from Jane Austin.
"Let's do this."
Forever your girl...
Rachel.
09/22/09
Awesome post, though.
EDIT: I didn't check the timestamp. Okay, I give you 10 hours.
09/22/09
Thank you!
ROFL! That's cool, I'll sexually harass them back.
let's just say...I'm very kinky. ;)
09/22/09
09/22/09
A japanese import section in the PSN store, with subtitles in the games ?
This is the greatest idea I've ever heard, yet it probably won't happen. Damn you, business world !!
09/22/09
This is good.
09/22/09
A man can dream, right?
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
SCEA interested in helping on MKTG side if they can have period of exclusivity.
That screams money...usually a marketing budget is quite high so I'd expect Sega to take them up on this offer.
09/22/09
09/22/09
As for the Aliens: Colonial Marines tidbit, the first thing that comes to mind is a motion tracker by using the PSP's screen.
EDIT: Another interesting note is that they referred to Valkyria Chronicles 2 as 'Valkyria 1937'. Makes me wonder if they listened to fan feedback about the jump to PSP and will relabel it as a sidestory/spin-off instead.
09/22/09
09/22/09
08/12/09
1. 2D gameplay, with possible exception of bonuslevels
2. Visual style isn't that important at all: they could keep the current 3D look, revert back to 2D or even try something cell-shading.
3. Story: Robotnik needs the 7 Chaos Emeralds and/or Master Emerald to power random doomsday device to conquer world, Sonic (and friends?) try to stop him. No new character taht will turn out to be the final boss, just Robotnik.
4. Only put in other playable characters in they dont radically change the experience.
5. Keep things as simple as possible. Example: no need for a worldmap if you can just have "X Zone, Act 1. X Zone, Act 2. X Zone, Boss act."
Oh, and realize the only addition to the series after the original trilogy/tetralogy people liked were the Chao.You'd think they would've done this on a console again by now
08/12/09
I will tell you why they haven't.
It's all about money. We on kotaku are not nearly as loud as 4 million sugar-sucking 9-year-olds who are currently growing up with Sonic X. Think about that. Growing up with Sonic X. Now consider that the more recent glut of Sonic games, since about Sonic Heroes, are resembling kids cartoons even more with each game. Terrible voice acting, nonsense throwaway story and simplistic gameplay with no hidden complex level of mastery or challenge. The bottom line here is that since Sonic Adventure 2 became a Gamecube title and the pre-teens and younger got wind of Sonic v. Shadow, Sega sort of stumbled into this kiddy pool and now there's one foot in and one foot out. Look no further than Sonic Unleashed to see my point. They got me to buy it, didn't they? Because I, probably like you, thought the daytime levels might have been worth the 50 bucks (for the record, I thought they had a lot of potential and some were downright fun).
Going backwards in time, like what you say they should do (and don't get me wrong, I would be first in line for Sonic 4 with a sleeping bag and a pillow), is a way to get an older generation to catch on to your product. Problem, competition is so fierce in that market that its a risk they just don't feel they can afford to take. Even a "simple" game like you and I would love to have would cost a lot to make if they're going to do that fanservice correctly, a la Mega Man 9. Sonic Team can only do one or two things at a time anyway. They're growing in popularity with little people and falling away with bigger people. So with one foot in the kiddy pool and one foot on dry land, the water's nice and warm on a hot day that is the current economic climate.
We, the loudmouth minority of the gaming community, are just the ass end of a risk assessment. It's a tough break, but don't hold your breath for this game of your dreams or you may not live to comment tomorrow.
The only hope we have is that Sonic will go through one of those "growing up" phases in order to keep the attention of the market they already have as they grow older. To do that, they won't be able to skimp on the gameplay and maximize their profits at the same time. And even though the cycle will inevitably repeat and SuperSonik Jr. will complain about the same things we have, there may be a few years where we can all come up for air and appreciate a more complex and mature take on Sonic. And by "more complex and mature", I am referring to, of course, something similar to the glory days of old that you and I so desperately pine for.
EDIT: Damn line breaks.
08/12/09
"The bottom line here is that since Sonic Adventure 2 became a Gamecube title and the pre-teens and younger got wind of Sonic v. Shadow, Sega sort of stumbled into this kiddy pool and now there's one foot in and one foot out."
lol, I'm sorry, but I just can't take your post seriously when you're implying that the old Sonic games were somehow more mature than the ones we have now. You played as anthropomorphic hedgehog that was blue, ran really fast, loved chili dogs, and was somehow able to convert giant floating rings into something that protected him from harm. You fought an evil genius and his robots alongside other anthropomorphic animals.
...
The majority of people who play Sonic games in the early generations? Kids. The majority of people who play Sonic games in the current generation? Kids. I don't know where you're getting the idea what Sonic was a mature game for mature gamers (such as yourself, right?). Take Sega's advertising a little too seriously back then?
08/12/09
You're missing my point completely to start a new and pointless argument. I don't mean mature like "grown up with guns and tattoos" mature. Of course a talking, running hedgehog with his own cartoons isn't mature in that sense. Maybe I should have spelled it out. Would "raw" or "distilled" be a better choice?
Gameplay has changed over those years and with it has gone the trials and tribulations of "GAME OVER" and, heaven forbid, running out of rings, which is pretty hard to do past since Sonic 2. Gone are the times where you had to stop and jump on an enemy to kill it. Maybe even dodge their attack (OMG HOW DO I DO THAT?). You just boost right through them now. Players are coddled with tutorials and infinite continues. Why bother including a manual these days?
What's more, gone are the masterwork 16-bit soundtracks of catchy and intricate stage themes, replaced by electric power chords and swelling instrumentation that is undoubtedly less unique and memorable that it ever was "back in the day". It's just another example of how working with less has, in many minds, produced much more.
The gameplay is what is mature. It's mature in its simplicity. It's a challenge of player versus game and not some happy trip down the yellow-brick road together like today's hand-holding adventures. And though sonic was never really that hard since Sonic 2, it was fun for a lot of the same reasons.
EDIT: I will conquer the line breaks!
08/12/09
@Who wants toast?:
Sega Called. They got your memo and released your game back trough time to four years ago.
08/12/09
08/12/09
Give it a try Sega and you'll see.
08/12/09
I say they just pay the Mega Man 9 guys (did Capcom do it in house?) and split the winnings. Of which there are sure to be plenty.
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
I have hopes for Bayonetta and Inifinite Space (even if I can't tell how the heck you actually play it), but they need to get back on some palatable content QUICK or they're going to fold again.
08/12/09
08/12/09
Norte Americanos no hables ingles anymore.
08/12/09
And that is just speaking for the people who actually can understand english.
The rest (which is the bigest part) of the people can only "shool english" which is only good enough for arcade games...
08/12/09
IMO, if Yakuza 3 were released with subtitles, the kind of gamers who are waiting for this game would make the effort, even if they aren't perfectly fluent in English.
Now, of course the ideal solution for Western gamers would be a full localisation in 4 or 5 major languages. But if the choice is between English subs or nothing at all, I say bring on the subs.
It's really a matter of how much money Sega would be willing to invest on localisation (should they decide to go ahead with an international release, that is...).
08/12/09
08/12/09
I'm sure at some point I'll say something so outrageously witty that I'll earn one the old fashioned way.
You know, sunshine, dog's asses, infinite monkeys on infinite typewriters, and all that...
08/12/09
08/12/09
For example, do you think you might be giving SEGA more love than they deserve because you played lots of NHL 94 on the Genesis, and now you equate good gaming fun with the SEGA brand?
08/12/09
Now however, Yu has been laying low and some of their recent good games have been overlooked in rants because of Sonic hate and Yakuza 3 envy, etc. They're a great software developer still, I just think they've slightly lost their way.
08/12/09
But yeah, I see your point.
08/12/09
I would say, though, that Afterburner, Outrun, Golden Axe, and Shinobi I remember for the arcade versions. That doesn't discount the fact that they were great games by SEGA, but they won't be recapturing the extreme awesomeness that was the full motion Afterburner game.
08/12/09
So, yeah, it was the games. :)
08/12/09
08/12/09
Finally Daytona USA is awesome.
08/12/09
I remember SEGA fondly because of their games - many of those games defined my childhood experience with interactive media. I would run down a list of games, but I'm sure you know what they are already.
It wasn't just the games, though. Like Hayes said, SEGA took risks (and copied Nintendo more than a fair bit :P ) with their games and their corporate structure. My favorite SEGA era began with the NAOMI; shortly after its introduction SEGA gave actual identities to its AM development teams to encourage competition in development (the birth of Smilebit, Overworks, WOW, etc.). This was an exciting time and many great titles were produced. This is the SEGA I fondly remember. I'd like to see a third renaissance from them someday.
08/12/09
You should all be ashamed!
08/12/09
08/12/09