Kotaku 
Enter your username and password.
Denver, 10:24 PM
Sun Nov 22
16 posts in the last 24 hours
Tip us: tips@kotaku.com
Editor-In-Chief:
Brian Crecente
Email | AIM | Twitter
Deputy Editor:
Stephen Totilo
Email | AIM | Twitter
Senior Editor:
Michael McWhertor
Email | AIM | Twitter
Senior Contributing Editor, Japan:
Brian Ashcraft
Email | AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, East Coast:
Michael Fahey
Email | AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, Oceania:
Luke Plunkett
Email | AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editor, Weekends:
Owen Good
Email | AIM | Twitter
Correspondent, San Francisco:
AJ Glasser
Email | AIM | Twitter
Columnist:
Leigh Alexander
Columnist:
Tim Rogers
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
How about we wait to get some numbers on how many people didn't buy the game before we start saying celebrating high sales? While pircay != a lost sale, in this case I think the piracy numbers will give some kind of inclination as to how much more money IW/Activision could have made, especially considering there were large numbers of people who were just downloading the game out of spite.
11/21/09
Any high profile game will have thousands of people downloading it within the first week or two. Can't stop pirates, after all... and this is one of the biggest game releases of all time we're talking about.
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
*prepares to be lynched*
11/21/09
Glad you enjoy mp.
It's not *that* bad if you've got a group of friends to play, but going solo, it's terribad compared to COD:WAW
11/21/09
Infinity Ward could've announced they'd kill a kitten and a puppy for every copy of the PC version sold and tons would still buy it. Hype completely blinds people and robs their common sense if it gets high enough, and this is the perfect example.
11/21/09
Keep saying that to make yourself look better, it hurt you, a lot.
11/21/09
11/21/09
Counter Strike Source is over 5 year's old.
Also, even on day one, the players peaked at 100k. The console versions had millions. Now numbers are dwindling, and soon it wont even see the same numbers as a game that is 5 years old.
#speakup
11/21/09
And as for the PC version having less players, no duh! The PC gaming community is small these days compared to consoles, the sole exception being World of Warcraft.
11/21/09
I can understand being angered and frustrated that a game wasn't what it was expected to be. Is it not enough to simply not buy the game?
11/21/09
It said nothing of not buying the game.
That said, it's a shame that it sold this well, and I can't help but label Bowling as a complete douche for rubbing it in our faces like that.
"Hey guess what, that thing about doing the exact opposite of what consumers want worked!"
Sounds fantastic....
11/21/09
11/21/09
Gamers are spoiled whiners nowadays, but if you really think they should just take what they're given even though they are paying, there's something wrong there. If devs want to make games for themselves then they can, just don't expect others to pay for it.
11/21/09
For example, the developers of Disgaea churn out the same horrible graphics with a different storyline and we buy into it. After awhile, you have to question with all the money they're getting, why are they giving us the same early 00's graphics?
Just all these petitions or crying out has to stop at one point, we should speak up when necessary not everytime we can't get our way. Sooner or later no one is going to take us seriously, PETA could attest to that.
11/21/09
11/21/09
Not saying there wasn't a petition. Just saying there were/are boycotters, too. Boycotters who don't all really understand what boycott means, but boycotters nonetheless.
11/21/09
That boycott had something like 1000 members at its hight. I don't think that's what was being referred to.
And the point isn't that PC gamers don't like matchmaking, and therefore activision should burn. The fact of the matter is that activision is doing this, not because they think it's a more accessible form of gaming, but because they want to eliminate custom content and charge ten bucks for shitty map packs.
That's what I have a problem with.
11/21/09
If you like paying more for less, then you go right ahead and do that. Consumers should never, ever lie down and take things (The exception being people who it doesn't really matter to). You give a business an inch and they will take a mile, and our only defense is our voice and our money. Many people forget to control the latter it seems, and we get screwed for it.
But to say we should shutup and take it is just plain idiotic.
11/21/09
those millions who bought it for console will have to shell out money for new map packs as well, why is that not within your argument? just because they play on console they should have to, and you shouldnt?
its their product to do as they see fit. I fucking love MW2 on PC and will be playing for a long time.
lol @ shitty map packs, theyre not forcing you to buy them...if you think they are shitty then dont fucking buy them.
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
I don't see how purchasing a product entitles you to ongoing free stuff.
I expect bug fixes within the mainstream life-time of a game. If it's sold broken then it should be fixed. Unless I am told at point of purchase I will get "free stuff" then I expect nothing except that which is described.
A game developer has entertained a customer when the customer plays the game. You don't get another free ticket when leaving the theatre. You don't get another free DVD from Blockbuster when you return one.
11/21/09
I think it is also worth mentioning that with the game being sold at a higher price, MW2 could have sold less units than MW and still beat it in sales.
Given all the other issues with matchmaking, hackers, and etc. I am disappointed that IW would rather ignore the problems with their paying customers and instead take petty shots like this towards boycotters that accomplish nothing.
Sadly it seems some people still don't understand why people are upset about being asked to pay more for less. Especially for features that are technically still in the game, but have been locked out to possibly be sold back to gamers at a later date.
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
I also do not expect free things from developers, but is awesome when they offer it. And its a win-win situation, many people don't understand that. Just because they are seeing no monetary return from stuff like that, does not mean they are losing money. The point of it is to get *more* people to buy the game, and giving free stuff is a great way to go about it. Free stuff attracts people, people talk about the free stuff that they got in the game, this spreads by word of mouth, and the game sees more sales.
11/21/09
No.... I'm perfectly fine with them charging for map packs. I'm not saying that they owe us free content. They should not, however, be restricting the flow of USER MADE CONTENT.
User-made content is, by nature, free. Because of this, it provides competition for the developer. I would have no problem with Valve releasing a ten dollar map pack for Counter-Strike source, but it had better be good, or people won't pay for them, because they have an abundance of high quality user-made maps.
If those three new maps are the only new maps you'll be able to play for months, then you buy them even if they aren't of high production value. You buy them because they've monopolized their own market, and there's nothing else out there.
Another problem with DLC that costs money is that developers tend to implement it very poorly.
Lets take Halo 3. I have an xbox, and I used to play halo quite often. I bought the first map pack, and the third, but I really didn't see much value in the second map pack. I didn't think it was worth ten dollars, so I didn't buy it.
Now, the trouble is, because I didn't pay those ten extra dollars, I am no longer able to play in just about any matchmaking mode. I can play social slayer, and that's about it.
That's pretty fucked up. Bungie is taking away the experience that I initially paid $60 for, just because I didn't feel like paying an extra 10. It didn't used to be like this. With Halo 2, bungie wouldn't implement new maps into regular matchmaking until they'd become free, but those days are gone.
Anyway, it has nothing to do with console VS PC so get that conflict out of your thick head. Of course console gamers shouldn't have to deal with this shit either, but defending console gamers is like telling someone who eats nothing but chocolate that their diet is bad for them. You guys don't seem to care that you're being fucked around. You actually seem to LIKE it, and seem to want the same thing impressed on us! You've developed some deranged form of Stockholm's syndrome, which makes siding with you very difficult.
What you're essentially saying it that, because the 360 player-base is being extorted and abused, the PC audience should be too?
How much sense does that make? The difference between people like you, and the annoying PC gaming elitists (like myself) that you see all over the internet is that, while you're perfectly fine with lying down and taking this corporate ass-raping, we're actually trying to resist it.
11/21/09
Also I feel an affinity to your avatar...
11/21/09
WHY DO THE CONSOLE AND PC MARKET'S HAVE TO BE IDENTICAL?
Can someone please answer that for me?
They are two different markets with two different sets of needs. Yes, is overlap in the games for each market, but there's overlap everywhere. And that doesn't change the fact that what works on consoles doesn't always work on PC and vice versa.
If you're not happy with your platform of choice, change it or move onto a different platform. But don't sit there and try to conform another market to your goddamn standards so that everything is "fair and equal".
11/21/09
I think (if it worked) it would make a great addition to PC shooters. I honestly want a button on the opening screen of the game that says JUMP IN, and I just connect to a game and start playing right away. But there's no reason to take away our server browser.
I just wanted to say that I don't think matchmaking itself is bad. But I would never take this route instead of the tradition. They exploited our trust.
Bad Company 2 in March.
11/21/09
I'm sorry but port forwarding (simple as it may be) is a far more daunting task for your average casual player who just wants to click one button to play than opening a server browser, sorting by ping, and picking a random server with a open slot.
11/21/09
Some people man. Just because some peoples complaints don't fall into their personal realm of dislike they go all Pro-republican Fox News name calling.
I love how elitist is used as an insult personally. I take it as a compliment. people really need to read definitions. I know Fox doesn't but that doesn't mean they should look like the same caliber of idiot's for screaming it out every chance they get.
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
lmao
monopolizing the market? let me ask you this...as a BUSINESS, which is what a game developer/publisher is, why would you want someone to make a map for free that would directly affect the sale of your own new map packs for this game?
lets say you owned a donut shop, and you had some badass donuts and everyone was buying them and then some dude uses all your ingredients from your own kitchen and starts passing out donuts in front of your store for free...would you particularly enjoy that?
and btw i play the-game-in-question and the majority of my games on the PC so lumping me into the console category is false.
and in halo 3, i never bought ANY map packs and i sure as hell had no problem finding a match in any mode, so im not sure if your lieing or just exaggerating reality in order to further your point.
user-made content is not a RIGHT it is a privilege can you get that through YOUR thick skull? no company is bound by some law to allow for free user content...so basically other games spoiled you and now your whining like a baby without a tit to suck on.
theyve monopolized their own product? is this what you meant to say? you mean to tell me that they have full control over their own IP? holy shit someone has to stop this!
/sarcasm (just in case)
#speakup
11/21/09
The existence of a mod community also allows a game to appeal to many more people than it could have with support only from the developer.
I know I wouldn't be playing CSS if it weren't for user-made jailbreak maps.
Either way, the existence of mods does not cannibalize the sales of developer-made DLC. Notice how, despite Bethesda's generous support for the mod community, the Shivering Isles expansion for Oblivion sold REALLY WELL!!!
Why? Because bethesda saw what users were making, and made something a hell of a lot better. They put a lot of work behind it, and made something of value, and they were rewarded for that with decent sales.
Anyway, notice how I never remarked about whether or not it was Activision's right to take such strict control over their IP. Of course it's their right to do that, but that doesn't mean that they should.
What activision is doing, and the trend that they're setting, is bad for the consumer, and bad for the quality of DLC.
I hate to stoop down to the level of name calling, but you are being EXTREMELY anti-consumer.
Notice how I'm not suggesting that game developers owe us free content, I'm simply suggesting that they should allow us to make our own content for the games that we pay for. I'm not asking for something crazy, or unreasonable.
I'm asking for something that has, as you said, been around in PC games for as long as I can remember, and I see no reason for it to go away.
I'm sorry that you think that all publishers should seek only to maximize profits and appease investors. I think there's more to it than that. I think an entertainment company's sole responsibility should be to provide the consumer with valuable products, and Activision isn't doing that.
You could say that the correct response to that would be to not buy the game, and that's a nice idea, but as this article shows, people are going to buy block-buster titles like Modern Warfare 2 no matter what.
Call of Duty sets standards, and that's what makes it so dangerous.
As for Halo 3.... you're wrong. I just logged in to check, and guess what? I can't go into any ranked matchmaking whatsoever, because I don't own the required maps. So please, cut the bullshit.
11/21/09
You do realise that after buying this game, it doesn't have to be the only game you can play! You can go back to playing other games with dedicated servers. It's not the end of the bloody world just because you'd own a game that supports a different multiplayer system.
The campaign is an absolute blast, and the multiplayer should definitely be given a chance too. Sure, if you discover you don't like the matchmaking system, fine - it's better than sitting their not having tried it at all on your soap box crying 'BUT IT'S LIKE THOSE FILTHY CONSOLE THINGS, GADZOOKS!' as your monocle falls into your champagne flute.
I'm sure people would take the PC gaming community a little more seriously if they were a little more open to change, or to adapting things as the industry develops - instead of acting like spoilt kids, whining about how much better your way is because you're not willing to see it from someone else's perspective.
11/21/09
What I can't get is why console gamers want pc gamers to be "normal". They're not. They have their own habits, their own culture, a different relationship with game developers, so on and so forth.
I guess console gamers will never really get it, since they'll always look at them as the "spoiled whiny elitists", and pc gamers will still look at the console crowd as the "ignorant brainless mass".
In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, There is Only War. The gamers war.
11/21/09
I'm sure many PC gamers have tried a system like this, as it's essentially what is in place on consoles at the moment. It's true that some PC gamers seem to think that their small subsection is most important despite it being the least profitable for developers by far, but that doesn't mean that they should just take it lying down.
It doesn't help that so many console owners are down on PC gamers for no good reason. The reactions are all mean-spirited. It's exactly like a person with a Ford laughing because his neighbour's more expensive car got keyed.
11/21/09
PC gamers have always gloated about what they have over console gamers, and while some of this might be true, don't act surprised when some console gamers relish an opportunity to "get back" at PC gamers.
Again, all of this is a generalization, but don't act like PC gamers are sweet and innocent when someone is "down on them."
11/21/09
PC gamers might feel the need to justify their purchase (to continue the analogy) as they are continuously overlooked by developers. They gloat because they so rarely get anything to gloat about.
I myself am primarily a console gamer, because I don't want to put in the effort PC gaming requires.
11/21/09
11/21/09
so what, there are no dedicated servers or mods? If you want mods there are tons of other games. These two things are technicalities and dont make or break graphics/story/game mechanics.
Not having dedicated servers isn't a huge deal either, if you want to play with buddies, use your friends list.
There is a reason why this game is the top selling launch entertainment product in history, people who dont buy it just because of servers and mods are missing out.
Have fun crying and wasting your time complaining about the game while the rest of us are having a good time.
11/21/09
11/21/09
The difference is the reason why I don't want to play Gears and GTA is tied up in the type of games they are, while the reason people don't want to play MW2 is because of the features it doesn't have. It's far better that the boycotters make it known why they aren't getting it, otherwise the industry would simply figure that it's no big deal to exclude those features again in the future.
You've phrased your post in such a way that it appears you think the boycotters are just sitting around not playing anything because they refused to pick up MW2...odds are they're playing any number of other games including CoD4.
As for it being the biggest launch in entertainment product history, well...let's just say that I find it incredibly sad that you need to be a first person shooter to come top these days; the genre as a whole is hardly pioneering.
11/21/09
Yes, because COD4 was such a popular and well liked game. MW2 sold on the merits of the game that came before, not on it's own.
Not having dedicated servers isn't a huge deal either, if you want to play with buddies, use your friends list.
That's only a tiny, tiny fraction of the issue and also, for that tiny fraction of the issue, can you tell me how I'm supposed to play with friends from America without lag when I'm in Ireland using listen servers?
Have fun crying and wasting your time complaining about the game while the rest of us are having a good time.
What you call crying, other people call making informed intelligent decision as consumers. What you call complaining, other people call explaining the issue to people like yourself who are just too ignorant or lazy to go find out the info for themselves.
So have fun with MW2. Meanwhile, those of us who like our money and like to get our worth out of it will be having fun playing games from developers and publishers that don't try to screw us over.
11/21/09
Whack-a-mole has been replaced by a ridiculous number of enemies, there is no AI to speak of, the campaign lasts 4.2 hours and P2P connections simply are not good enough for FPS multiplayer.
COD4 was a massive hit due to it's multiplayer, it is broken in this game.
11/21/09
11/21/09
There's companies who rely on PC sales and will actually pay attention when that platform speaks.
Rage is still up in the air n AvP was confirmed to be Dedi's the other day.
Dice have said dedi's too. Valve run dedi's to.
And out of FPS realm you have DA:O taking advantage of PC too with some tweaks to the UI n play style, as well as a editor released.
I think Mw2 will become an exception not the rule.
11/21/09
The damage has been done before, and this game will have been the definitive sledgehammer.
#speakup
11/21/09
I know, it's kinda evil too, but it doesn't mean they don't like us, their consumers. It's just a different strategy than that from Valve, for instance. Not every game allows mods. You know that.
And unfortunately, the game selling so well just proves that almost nobody cares about those problems we know about. And that's what matters to them. They are a company. They want profit. If that boycott had been a real boycott, MAYBE they would hear it.
But they know that those cheap ports don't sell that well. MW2 is not a cheap port. They just went in wrong directions in some parts of it. At least in our opinion. Apparently not in the opinions of most people.
11/21/09
Look, I understand that mods are cool, but the biggest reason that most PC gamers cling to modding so dearly isn't that they love to tinker with their games, it's that they love to let other people tinker with their games and they love to enjoy the fruits of that labor for free.
You know that's true, and I know that's true.
The rest may just be my opinion, but it's really hard to argue or counter the fact that the average end user, by far, sees mods as "free content" - that's not exactly a noble cause to defend, is it?
11/21/09
11/21/09
Removing dedicated servers from a PC game would be akin to removing online play all together from a game like Halo on consoles and only allowing system link. Just as consoles have progressed to online multiplayer, PC's have progressed further to dedicated servers which provide a much smoother and fairer experience.
You say that the reason people are clinging so dearly to mods is because we just want free stuff but that in't true all around.
Take myself for example, as someone hoping to become a part of the industry, modding provides me a way to create a portfolio, familiarise myself with engines, algorithms and techniques and to polish my skills so that I can become more successful and more efficient once I'm a part of the industry.
If modding had never existed, there'd be a lot of games, a lot of people and a lot of gameplay styles and mechanics that would have never seen the light of day as far as gaming goes.
Modding is an integral part of retaining innovation , an important recruitment channel and a way for gamers interested in the industry to develop their skills early on.
11/21/09
There are other engines, algorithms etc. from various other games for which to hone your skills, just because this one does not allow you to do so does not make it an evil company looking for a quick buck.
and that whole bit about this being akin to removing online play altogether from halo was an extremely false hyperbole meant to solidify your point. you can make ridiculous absurdities all day but that doesnt mean you wont be called on them.
my point being, MW2 did not take away multiplayer..they simply changed the way that they do things. they made it JUST like the console version which may anger some but others may be just fine with (myself and my friends and the countless people i've played against).
this would be akin to changing the online infrastructure in halo to something else but still allowing for multiplayer.
change is not coming, it has happened...and we either decide we can live with it, or we decide not to purchase the game...thats all we can do.
11/21/09
You fail to see the far-reaching consequences that this may have. MW2 is the fastest selling game in history and as such many people within the industry are watching it like a hawk and looking to replicate it's success. Unfortunately, this may mean more and more developers continue to lock out their code so that eventually we may be left with no free options for familiarising ourselves with game engines, etc. I was speaking in general when I was talking about the implications of locking out modders and mappers. I would have assumed that was obvious but apparently not.
My comparision was not hyperbole in any way. Just as using listen servers is a step back for PC multiplayer, removing online all together from console multiplayer games would be a step back for them.
To put it simply:
PC: listen servers (P2P gaming) evolved into dedicated servers
Consoles: Local multiplayer and LANs evolved into listen servers.
11/21/09
you are correct on both accounts however it is still their game and their property to do with what they will, I will say again that it is our privilege to play this game and they are not bound by law or decree to produce this game or to have half the features within.
my point is, either buy it or dont...dont sit here complaining about something that will more than likely only get worse.
#speakup
11/21/09
And you're right, it's their game and they can do what they please with it. I just feel that the direction they went with it on PC was the wrong one.
I wouldn't consider myself to be complaining though. I'm simply trying to provide an alternative point of view and perhaps offer a better understanding of the issue . I haven't bought the game and have no intention of doing so.
11/21/09
"MW2 is not a cheap port."
You have seen the warning you get on the PC version about it disconnecting form Xbox Live yeah?
And the xbox code pulled from the exe?
11/21/09
Just a heads up but I know the anaology that works:
It's like having your PS3 n 360 games made in SD because a game will sell more on the Wii. It'll use friend codes too.
Then being told that Friend codes are better, and that with only 30million consoles sold your in the minority, so it doesn't really matter.
11/21/09
At the very least, the options for console tweaking are necessary.
#speakup
11/21/09
But Activision also knows that nobody will take a $40 purchase to the court. Which is why they get away with it playing dirty. Somebody should really sue them for some killer punitive damage for stepping on customer rights like that.
11/21/09
11/21/09
Wait longer, IW, before claiming victory. Maybe 10% of all-time CoD4 PC gamers bought it first week.
I'm not a frog and you're not a bunny, so let's not jump ahead. Let's wait for a couple of months to really start comparing numbers