@Chanaluss: Aeris hit me slightly, as did the time when Palom and Porom turned to stone in FF4. But, yeah, seriously, Lufia 2's ending kicked my ass -- moreso than any game prior or since.
Glad to see hardcore games were the top 3 in the list. No idea why people keep claiming casual gaming is winning out when the numbers show otherwise.
@Xtreme_Hindu_Cow: You know, I posted on this in the first "FF13 coming to 360" thread but I imagine reading all 900+ comments is asking too much.
I'm thrilled this game is coming out on the 360. Absolutely thrilled. The 360 player base isn't just FPS players; wake up and see the world.
I bought a 360 last December almost exclusively as a JRPG and SRPG/strategy system. My 360 library consist of Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey, Culdcept Saga, and Mass Effect (my only non-JRPG). I'm planning on grabbing Spectral Force 3, Operation Darkness, Tales of Vesperia, Infinite Undiscovery, and Last Remnant when they come out. That's a massive JRPG/SRPG library by the end of the year. How many PS3 JRPS/SRPGS will be out by the end of the year? At least the PS3 will finally have Eternal Sonata in September, I suppose (one year after the 360 edition). And, of course, there's Star Ocean 4 coming to the 360 someday.
I always figured I would have to buy a PS3 in 2009/2010 to play FF13. Now, I don't have to. (Although, I'll likely buy a PS3 around 2010 anyway for other games).
Say and think whatever you want, but the 360 has a strong lineup of JRPGs and a user base that buys them. Where are all the PS3 JRPGs/SRPGs? I still find it insane that the Playstation branded console has so few RPGs two years into the game.
@tokyoshi: You know, I hate MS as much as the next guy -- the first Xbox was a lame "poor man's PC" and I'm a huge anti-Window Linux guy. But, the 360 honestly makes a great deal of sense for FF13. Remember, this isn't an exclusive deal -- they're not stealing FF13 from the PS3, it'll still be there.
The people at MS and SquareEnix have done their homework, plain and simple. Final Fantasy isn't the number one RPG in Japan anyway. The Japanese market cares much more about Dragon Quest then FF, and the Japanese market as a whole is much more dominated by the DS, Wii, and PS2 then by either the PS3 or 360. There's a reason that Dragon Quest is going to the DS. The biggest market for FF is the western JRPG, anime/otaku market. This has been true for quite a while. With the 360 having the largest market in the west, it makes sense to put FF13 here. It's just business.
It was a hard sell to convince me to buy a 360 in the first place, but 7 months later I feel pretty good given that I can go to Gamefly and see several JRPG/SRPG games for rent for the 360 but less than 2 available for the PS3. Sony, seriously, dropped the ball on JRPGs these generation. I don't like it, but that's just the way it goes. And, as a gamer, I'm here to game. I hated with Square moved to Sony from Nintendo 10 years ago, but that's life.
@GTA4er: As a diehard Final Fantasy fan (my wife and I used FF4 music for our wedding), I feel pretty certain saying there's no where close to 95% of FF fans owning a PS3 right now. The type of games JRPGers enjoy (JRPGS, SRPGs/strategy games, etc) simply don't exist on the PS3 right now. The whole games a traditional JRPGer would be inclined to play much on a PS3 at the moment is Disgaea 3 and the upcoming Valkyria Chronicles. Spend sometime on the JRPG boards on the net -- most JRPGers are sticking with the PS2, DS, and PSP as mainline systems right now. The few who have moved towards a current-gen system tend to be westerners who grabbed a 360 for Lost Odyssey or Eternal Sonata or some such.
Now, to be fair, 95% of FF fans were *intending* to buy a PS3 after the system garnished more JRPGS/SRPGS and the release date of FF13 drew closer. But, I'm pretty sure those plans are going to be changed for a lot of those potential buyers now. This is a pretty big deal for the western JRPG market as the current-gen consoles have yet to displace the handhelds and PS2 in this area.
This is insane. I mean, I'm one of those guys that bought a 360 last Christmas as my current-gen JRPG machine. Yes, JRPG machine. At the time, and still today, the 360 has more JRPGs than any other console. It was nice to own the machine that would be the exclusive console destination of Mistwalker games (Sakaguchi is my absolute favorite game designer), as well as the machine getting a ton of Namco Bandai RPGs on a timed exclusive basis -- Eternal Sonatta, Tales of Vesperia, etc. Likewise, the machine has a number of other "Japanese" games that most JRPGers like -- Culdcept Saga, Operation Darkness, Spectral Force 3, etc.
But, you know, I always knew I'd have to buy a PS3 in a year or two for FF13. But, FF13 is coming to 360 now? WTF? How did the 360 turn out to be the best current-gen JRPG console? That's just insane.
Yeah, it's a shame Versus and the other FF13 spin-offs aren't coming to the 360 (although, I imagine they will if FF13 does well in the market). But, it's really a trade-off. If you take the intersection of JRPGs between the 360 and PS3, you end up with a very large set (although, most of the Bandai games hit the 360 first) with just a few games falling outside -- the spin-off FF13 games on the PS3 and the Mistwalker games on the 360. Honestly, though, I'm not a huge spin-off fan and Mistwalker exclusivity plus timed Namco Bandai exclusivity largely outweights the FF13 spin-offs in my mind. Plus, Mass Effect is a pretty damn good RPG, even though it's not a JRPG.
@I_fit_in: I disagree. All past monopolies that harmed consumers were monopolies in more or less essential product areas -- not entertainment or luxury goods. While Nintendo no doubt broke the law, the fact that people took the time to investigate and apply said law to a luxury product area where consumers were nevertheless still willing to pay the inflated prices is ridiculous. Aren't there bigger fish to fry? It's not like this money is going back to the consumers anyway -- it's just additional revenue for the EU.
Again, I realize it's against the law (in both the EU as well as the US) -- I just disagree with the law. Luxury/entertainment goods are one of the few areas of the economy where consumers still have a reasonable right of refusal and capability to protest pricing above what the market can bear. Likewise, the value of the products is entirely unknown and based largely on popularity and perception. Even a small discount by a given retailer can alter the perception of the value of a property despite the willingness for consumers to previously pay the original price without reservation.
On the other hand, Nintendo lost when they went the illegal route to this whole affair. There are plenty of legal, although gray area, methods to influence prices. High-end consumer electronics and the related boutique shops that sell them are a good example.
@globones: Not sure if you're just trolling, but the only major luckfest MK was Double Dash. The original, MK64, and MKDS all reward skill significantly. On the other hand, I haven't played enough of MK Wii to know where it stands. I have a feeling that its significantly watered down though. And moose_pants's comment isn't encouraging.
@Cathaoir: Yeah, the whole vanilla frosty concept is just strange. I still haven't gotten used to it since its introduction. Seriously, a vanilla frosty tastes like the standard soft-serve you can get anywhere. The original frosty, however, is special and is completely unique compared to standard chocolate shakes/soft-serve.
@Lethal_Dosage, @iamcool388: To start, I agree 100% that piracy is bad, immoral, and hurts the industry -- people shouldn't do it. However, I implore you both to never say things like "moral or immoral, it's the law/illegal". No one should follow a law simply because it's a law. We have had tons of terrible laws in this country's history which I am glad people did not follow. We still have many today. If a law is unjust, illogical, or simply corrupt then people should willfully break it and deal with the consequences if/when they are caught. Note that most Supreme Court cases occur because people broke the law in question and appealed the case all the way up. In many cases, the law is then ruled unconstitutional and thrown out. Most people here probably violate the DMCA in some fashion (pretty hard not to when dealing with digital media). But, that's largely considered a corrupt law that restricts fair-use and therefore no one complains. And, of course, there are the large number of 'victimless' laws that society always debates over: drugs, sex/porn, etc. On a related note, consider the fact that the US is one of the few countries with juror nullification. Even if the evidence makes it clear the defendant is guilty as can be, a juror can vote 'not guilty' on grounds that he believes the law in question is unjust. See: [www.fija.org]
@fuchikoma: Well, Nintendo owns the Mariners. Nintendo makes DSes. Pretty sure the goal with this is to sell more DSes, not more cell phones, PDAs, and PSPs.
My wife and I drove down from Boulder on Friday. Was actually quite fun, honestly enjoyed things more than the Nintendo Fusion Tour back before the Wii launch -- and heck, that wasn't free. The licenses are neat, although I wish I could get my hands on the Mario Kart jumpsuits the event staffers were sporting. Those were unbelievably awesome.
2-3% of console owners own multiple consoles? Really? I swore multi-console was going to be the norm, rather than the exception this generation or at least 30%. Are we simply looking at numbers representing a bunch of last-gen owners? Tons of people still owning a PS2 and nothing else?
@ForgotMyKeys: Here's a second vote for everyone in this thread to read David Sirlin's "Play to Win" article (Google it). Gaming != Competitive Gaming. Even the largest fighting game tournaments (with cash prizes, etc) allow plenty of so-called "exploits" that were unintended by the developers. Such is part of the meta-game element that dominates professional competitive gaming.
Concerning the article, I find it an extreme waste of time to focus on a victimless, virtual crime rather than fight actual sex crimes. Unless someone can prove that there is a positive correlation between the availability of virtual child porn and the rate of committed sex crimes, then it's pointless. Besides, conventional wisdom has always assumed that the virtual material has provided a safe outlet for people and thus reduced the number of actual criminal acts.
I would like to comment on the sub-debate going on here on emotional/societal maturity though, although not necessarily with regards to sex.
It's a huge annoyance of mine when people parrot the belief that people of age X less than Y are not emotional/societal mature. Obviously, many look at other people and believe they see this fact in them. But, to heck with other people. What about you personally? How many of you feel you've matured/changed much since your mid-teens? Honestly.
Personally, I'm a firm believer that I haven't changed much at all since I was 13, which was nearly 13 years ago. Perhaps I matured faster than my peers, but I doubt it. Nearly all of my friends that I had then are exactly the same today as they were then. Of course, I hung out with the "intelligent, computer programmer geek" types rather than the "go to party, do drugs" type.
On a related note, I ended up marrying my high-school sweetheart and have spent my entire adult life with her. And, again, she hasn't really changed much since she was 17. While she ended up marrying someone 8 months younger than her, I'm fairly certain had she married someone 28 months older that things would be more of less the same. Age is honestly a stange watermark to use for most laws -- it doesn't really indicate anything other than ones chances of heart failure/cancer.
I really dislike the Microsoft approach as it really isn't parenting, in my opinion. It doesn't teach the kid to have self control or to realize the consequences of "gaming his life away" -- it simply prevents him from making the mistake in the first place. There's nothing noble about someone following a rule they can't break if he wanted.
I don't make rules for them to be followed -- for my kids to obey me "because I said so" or "because I'm their parent". After 18 years, they don't have to obey me, and there's no relationship in adult life that requires obedience for the sake of obedience. The point of my rules is to highlite bad habits/behavior. The point is that my kids will break the rules, see the consequences off breaking those rules, and realize that "Dad was right...again". As the cycle repeats time and time again, my kids internalize my wisdom and "my rules" become "their rules" -- things they'll actually follow as an adult because it's logical, not because "Dad said so".
I'd rather my kids game too much as children and realize the consequences of bad grades when they don't really matter than do well in K-12 and then fail college because they're too busy playing WoW and didn't setup a timer to kick them off after a few hours.
Having the best kids in the world is pointless if they turn out to be terrible adults. K-12 grades don't matter after college. The fact that your kids cleaned their rooms every weekend for 18 years doesn't matter in 30 years, etc. The wisdom behind the rules are the key, not the mechanical act of following them.
This is a pretty good deal. We're talking $50 for a player with movies that are running $5-10 on used sites to $12-20 on Amazon (probably less in a few weeks). It would be possible to buy a HD DVD collection larger than my meager DVD collection for less than 4 new 360 games. Not bad.
There's 344 HD DVDs released in the US (not counting foreign releases and adult titles). That's a lot to watch even if no new releases are coming out; esp. since I only buy films I intend to watch more than once.
I'm amazed that *gamers* are going on and on about the "obsolete format" thing. I expect that from non-gamer, moving-watchers though. I mean, heck, how many of you own a Dreamcast? A SNES? A NES? A N64? How many of you bought one recently off EBay? As gamers, we live and breath a cycle of obsolescence every 4-6 years. We amass large quantites of media that one day is obsolete. We purchase and collect old, no-longer-produced hardware to play said media. We pay top dollar for old games on Ebay. My original NES, SNES, and Dreamcast still work -- I still play them to this day. How is buying into HD DVD (and amazing, fire sale prices) any different?
How many of you were one-console gamers last generation and now find yourself buying used Gamecube/PS2/Xbox games to play on your newly acquired backwards compatible current gen system? Isn't it awesome to buy games that people paid $60 for at release for $10 or less today?
I'm going to buy a PS3 someday. Blu-ray is obviously my future. That doesn't mean it's stupid to buy a HD DVD add-on/movies now. Imagine if there was a $50 add on for the 360 that allowed you to play all PS3 games released at or before May 2008 (the cut-off month for HD DVD). Would you consider buying such even if you were going to buy a PS3 someday? I would -- solely to play Rachet, Resistance, and Uncharted now rather than later.
@Fnor: The main problem is that video games are largely works of art. Two companies can produce two different licensed sports game using the same rosters, basic game elements, etc but the subtle differences between game A and game B would lead to different people valuing each game differently.
It's not just about efficency and price as there are elements of the product that subjective and personal.
Certainly, there are other sports titles and many non-licensed games. But, there any many people who value sports games modeled after real pro/college sports. That still doesn't mean those people are happy with the EA-vision of a pro sports sim. Having only one vision of a licensed sports franchise leaves those who desire a licensed experience but different vision/approach with no where to go. In other words, it leaves a set gamers without games. Likewise, such reality probably won't benefit the rest of the gamers who don't mind EA's vision. It's not like sports titles are going to get any cheaper. Consumers as a whole don't benenfit, and a niche of consumers are left without what they consider viable products to purchase. All in all, a losing situation.
@Toasticus: Good points all around. I mean, heck, I purchased a 360 this last November exclusively for Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, and Culdcept Saga -- Dead Rising, Mass Effect, and (suprisingly for me) Bioshock were nice bonuses. The 360 has a fairly balanced library, in my opinion. Still a ways to go, but certainly not bad for what is commonly proclaimed as an American-centric, FPS platform. Lots of Capcom and Namco-Bandai love for the system. Of course, I also own a Wii and will be buying a PS3 at some point in the relatively near future.
@Article: Honestly, I don't think we'll have a PS2 success this generation. The Wii is both unique as well as the Nintendo console. It'll sell to it's "blue ocean" target demographic as well as those who buy every Nintendo console for Mario/Smash/Zelda. The 360 and PS3 are very balanced in the base sense, having the same multi-platform titles as well as various titles across different genres. Both also have exclusives that are "must haves" for most of the gaming population. By the end of this generation, I imagine nearly every adult gamer will own all three systems -- being system exclusive died last generation. The "under 18 mom will only buy me one console" group will probably end up being the deciding factor, but I'm honestly not sure how much the gaming market is composed of children thesedays. And even then, I think that market is very well split between the various consoles as it is.
@Article: Honestly, I don't think we'll have a PS2 success this generation. The Wii is both unique as well as the Nintendo console. It'll sell to it's "blue ocean" target demographic as well as those who buy every Nintendo console for Mario/Smash/Zelda. The 360 and PS3 are very balanced in the base sense, having the same multi-platform titles as well as various titles across different genres. Both also have exclusives that are "must haves" for most of the gaming population. By the end of this generation, I imagine nearly every adult gamer will own all three systems -- being system exclusive died last generation. The "under 18 mom will only buy me one console" group will probably end up being the deciding factor, but I'm honestly not sure how much the gaming market is composed of children thesedays. And even then, I think that market is very well split between the various consoles as it is.
@murdermonkey: For the love of all things good, please don't generalize JRPGs based on recent editions of Final Fantasy. Yes, FF 7, 8, and partially 10 and 12 are known for emo teenage story lines and gender-confused males. That's why many people claim there hasn't been a decent FF since the SNES. There's roughly 80 JRPGs released a year, every year since 1999 or so. Sample more of the genre ... please. Play Final Fantasy 6. Play Chrono Trigger. Play Xenogears. Play Suikoden. These showcase what Japanese story telling and character development can be; these games are the reason why I continue to have faith in Japanese dev-houses, hoping for the next great game that has a lasting impact on my life to hit. Mass Effect is a great game, as is Bioshock. Nevertheless, neither game touches the story of Chrono Trigger or the character development of Final Fantasy 6. Sadly, no Japanese game in the past decade has either.
