I apologise for my lack of reply, I was on holiday for a few weeks where all I've managed to do is check Kotaku a little bit rather than be logged in.

You make excellent points and I fully understand what you're saying, but the point where we do split is on the topic of venture capitalists. This is exactly where my problem lies is that you have an ecomonic structure that deliberately works to benefit those who are further up the ladder rather than those further down the ladder. My politics is not the core of my belief, my politics is a result of my belief in the equality of people and my general belief that Marx got a lot wrong, but he got it right that the working class are the ones who take the damage, and I find myself argueing that there still is a class war today.

You agree that the shareholder payout versus contributer payout is unfair, but that someone can just provide money and gamble their way to victory does not seem fair to me. The higher up you are in the ladder, the more risks you can take, the more you can profit and those workers feel the brunt of when the venture capitalists get it wrong. You say its good in a corporation when employees "just lose their jobs", but the point is that its not "just losing your job", this ruins families. Sure you could argue that where employees jobs are more secure is where the biggest companies are, but you probably agree that the bigger companies generally produce more "shovel ware" than indie developers.

And I come full circle to my main point, that excess profit in games ruins it. Of course when I say "demolish profit" or whatever far fetched idea I come up with next, you need a bit for insurance as such, but this should be kept away from the stock market. Shares between employees should not be able to be bought or exchanged in my opinion - if you're unhappy with the shares given in a structure like John Lewis, then you get on to your union to change it. But in both America and the UK unions are about as strong as a formal letter of complaint, so thats pointless.

I understand fully there are many examples of where nationalisation can ruin companies. But when it comes to culture, even in the system I so villainise in Soviet Russia, culture flourished. I count videogames as culture and though I am not suggesting nationalisation, I'm suggesting some sort of non profit motive, or where profits go back to the worker rather than the venture capitalists.

I'm sure you'd be able to pick millions of errors with the idea of venture capitalists being replaced with public money, but it is exactly this that I agree with. The Government, and I believe the Government represents the people thus the people, still get a say in the running of these companies and they get to stick their finger in every pie as opposed to owning them all. Profit motive still there for higher management positions, but ultimately the workers get a big slice of this and if worst comes to worst the Government is already there to offer them a job somewhere else.

Of course that is what I predominately meant, the business of video games.

I look at the two biggest money earners: EA and Activision, and theres a lot of hate for them.

When a smaller company like 2K is attempted to be bought out the videogame world cheers for the smaller guy - there is some sort of unconscious understanding that where the most amount of money goes there is the most amount of trouble.

Of course you could give a few good games as examples of either company, but the sheer idea of a publisher is that they are the stereotypical capitalist middle man. They front the money, they act as the publicisers.

Where my problem with profit comes in is very much from a Marxist perspective. That the workers get paid but excess money is made and is not shared with the workers as equally as it should. I feel that companies should work profit free - I'm not sure if you have a similar system in America for any company but the department store John Lewis has the employees as the sole shareholders, and this is the way I feel companies should be run.

I'm telling you this because you very much take a "profit is good" position on games when I would disagree, but I have not seen much analysis of either arguement and I'd like to hear the other side.

The name and display picture are jokey - a predominately American site, daring to use the worst C word there is in the American English vocabulary etc.

Its something unique that you don't see much and its nice to act almost like a representative of the left wing commenters, because when I changed my name from teh_master...almost (I had a recurring theme with putting ...almost at the end of names, so I'm sarcastic) to Communist_Gamer, it grabbed peoples attention and I got a lot of followers just for that.

My views on economics are simple - Marx was right for so many things. But in a "Dictatorship of the Proletariat"? I don't think so. Marx is the aim of socialism, in the same way Jesus' "Turn the other cheek" and "Love your enemies" are aims for Christian principles.

So, to sum it up briefly - Nationalisation of what was once nationalised, I'm English I have the fantastic National Health Service, I want renationlisation of gas and water, and so on. Heavy taxes on larger companies on stock market, lower taxes for those off the market and run profit free.

Its more like a mix of "Das Kapital" with "No Logo".

As you can tell from my name I'm not exactly impartial with my views but I want to size up the other arguement before I go shouting on a plinth.

I've seen you around and your belief that as I quote on DV8godd's page "videogames and business do mix".

Personally I believe profit can only serve to make profit, and that its about screwing people as far as possible before they switch service.

But please do tell me what you think.

Hey, my response from the numbers is up... it's an old thread now so here.

tu shay. (is that better?) :)

P.S. I never fist pounded a guy named Trevor.

I still don't see why excluding or including taxes is a big deal, as long as it's stated. Companies can move, maybe EA should.

You're very welcome. Also... excellent response to stevenjazz787's criticism as well. Big laughs. BIG laughs. :D

I will be truly disappointed if you aren't in the upcoming Hyper Multi-Tap for your contributions to that post. Keep up the great commentary!

DefDealer - I don't work for ATVI, but I do work in technology finance, so I get a lot of exposure to the financial aspect of video game companies.

JGW - you know your bonus info...do you work at atvi?