This if everything proves the Wii is a slap bitch to harcdore gameers ,a machine for old time retirees ,old ladies,soccer moms ,ultra casuals ,people that dont know a thing about videogames ....

An aberration for gamers thats it

@Iberianpower: Lol! So a game system can't have appeal to hardcore and casuals?

Anyway, I <3 Wii!

the Wii is a slap bitch duly noted

because apparently, gaming is an "abberration" when it catches on with people who aren't 20-30 year old males.

grow up, because I don't want to have to play "hardcore" video games with the likes of you.

Further proof that Nintendo, while makers of fine games that I still enjoy today, are no longer "for me".

Sure the Wii is a great novelty, and while I expect to get a couple classics(mario, zelda) out of it, the whole system is a cash grab to get my mom and dad.

Really, it was this kind of attitude(well sort of)that helped Sony establish themselves as the cool hardcore gamer company... But now we see both MS and Sony not embracing that image.

Guess they want all the wii loot, but cant help think what would happen if someone did a resurgance of that attitude we left behind and use wii as an example of what hardcore gamers shouldn't be.

The Wii being used as a weapon against the Dark Lord Thompson? Such an idea is unprecedented!

@Iberianpower: You're joking, but I fear for the chance I'm wrong.

I too have seen similar events where people who would normally walk past a video game and not even bat an eyelash wait in line for 15 minutes just to play Wii.

@Iberianpower:

Waaah waaah waaaah.. theres no serious games for the Wii. Play Resident Wiivil and the STFU

Though my pushing 60 parents were only mildly interested in the wii... my girlfriends parents were really into it and told me I had to bring it to a recent cottage visit. One of the days it rained and we spent the day playing Wii along with the more traditional card games. It fit seamlessly into the more traditional idea of gaming (like board games or w/e). Great fun.

On a side note... My pa is a bit a driving enthusiast... and I just picked up a 360 driving wheel... and he cant get enough of it.

@Iberianpower:

*Looks up from headshotting 7 ganados in RE4 in under 3 seconds*

I was catually able to get my parents playing the thing for 3 hours. My dad and i used to play pilotwings, Mario kart and Juraasic park for the snes together, but aside from that, nothing.

My mom has never enjoyed gaming. But she was willing to play tennis for hours on end.

Now granted she went back to quilting and he went back to starcraft, but still, a momentary victory.

ON an aside, did anyone else seriously misread the title as 'my parents KEY party'?

@Unrestricted: dude that almost made me choke to death on a tortilla chip. total lmao material there.

Ai, I'm all for patting...count me in!

I have seen this effect for myself. It's true... the Wii does avoid the FUD that seems to surround the classic, two handed controller. An interesting thing to note is how this new market the Wii appeals to don't seem to notice, or care, that the controls are ridiculously inaccurate.

Still, if motion sensing controls are the future, someone has to jump in first to justify the research to make them work right. If Nintendo throw enough of the money the'ye raking in back into R&D, the Wii 2 or 3 could be truly fantastic.

Further proof that the Wii is truly for everyone.

Whereas Nintendo has always said they are an "everybody" company, this generation they've actually put their money where their mouth is. And it's paying off in spades.

@Ape.of.Gods: The thing is, though Nintendo used E3 to only show Wii Fit, they are working on games we don't even know about. Sure they are working on casual games, but something everyone seems to have disregarded is their attempt to meld casual and hardcore games and just have "games". That may still stand against your thinking, but, as they spent the entire conference stating otherwise, they aren't turning "casual". They're trying to balance between "casual" and "hardcore", something quite hard to do- but something they're starting to be emulated in by Sony and Microsoft (though not as willingly).
Much can be attained by removing the hardcore and casual barriers, including a larger understanding of games as a whole by the general media and maybe a dedemonizing, so to speak...

What was my point again?... Something about the Wii supporting the hardcore, even if third parties aren't willing.

@Iberianpower: Not every "harcdore" gamer despises all things casual. I enjoy an occasional round of Diner Dash or Bejeweled.

I'm amazed by all the people here who seem to take personal offense to Nintendo's seeking out (and worse, finding!) new markets. Get over yourselves.

@Iberianpower: Chutes and Ladders is a bitch slap to us serious Risk players! Do you see how stupid that sounds?

Right now, casual games are very popular so the market is changing to meet the demand. Nintendo did the right move and is now cashing in like crazy.

... and personally seeing my parents play games is something I thought I'd never see.

So how can new gamers pumping money in the gaming industry be bad?

I wouldn't call the Wii a slap in the face of anyone. The beauty of it is that it appeals to me, my parents, my non-gaming fdriends, my gaming friends, etc. There's something for everyone.

On a related note, since when did "hardcore" games start meaning FPSs and violence? Isn't Mario Galaxy being looked forward to just as much as Halo 3? Where is the definition of "hardcore gamer" at this point? I love my Wii, and enjoy RE4 just as much as Wii sports or Excite Truck. To say that the Wii doesn't pander to "hardcore gamers" is a put down to anyone who thinks gameplay and enjoyment are more important than processing power.

@Illusion: It's "slap bitch"- get it right!

I strongly dislike the Wii. It's taking away precious developer funds from goodly hardcore games and redirecting them towards all this casual garbage.

People, what's the point of continually saying "Nintendo is for children" and crap like that, when without Nintendo, video games would not be the same today? I'm sure everyone here has grew up playing Super Mario Bros as a child. Anyway, as much as the anti-Nintendo/"casual" gamers may complain, the numbers don't lie. Nintendo has enough money to do what they want and still keep a strong fanbase. Whether you like it or not, Nintendo's here to stay.

word.

@iberianpower:

Dude, let's not confuse the difference between a hardcore game and a mature gamer here.

Hardcore gamers are up for anything, unlike you, and would, again unlike you, dig the Wii.

Besides, saying the Wii doesn't have mature games is Wiidiculous (I couldn't resist).

@MadMinstrel: So "hardcore games" are only games that break the 10 million dollar barrier? But I'm sure when you have that much money the amount needed to make the crappy spinoffs they've been making is a crushing blow.

Maybe the casual garbage doesn't need to exist, as with all garbage, hardcore garbage included.

@Iberianpower:
Yes, I totally fit your description. I'm 21, been playing games non-stop since the NES, actually supported the original Xbox when everyone doubted it, and I constantly play with my 21 year old friends. Whoa, wait guess you're wrong :P What you did get right is I'm not a hardcore gamer, though I did call myself one back in the day. I mean, what's wrong with getting people who never played into "our world"? Back in the NES days, everyone talked about videogames. We didn't play videogames, we played Nintendo. Just yesterday one of my friends who was talking about buying a Wii came home just for a second. As soon as I turned on the Wii, that second turned into 3 hours. As soon as he gets the money he's getting one. That's the reason why it's pretty much sold out everywhere. Thing is, everyone should stop all the bullshit about "next-gen this, next-gen that" and just enjoy games. Like Flynn said in the article, each system has its strengths and weaknesses, and flashy graphics and what-not doesn't matter as long as we're all having fun. And "hardcore gamers" stop being so selfish. Games are for everyone. /end rant. :)

Of all the hardcore online MP games I've ever played, I've never met people more psycho than those who are being competitive with Pokemon D/P. It's right up there with Starcraft in some ways.

Hardcore is a stupid term.

Hardcore gamers are assholes. If my preference for the Wii takes away from my nearly 20 years of gaming, my multiple systems, my decent-sized personal library of games (all those read as: HOW MUCH MONEY I'VE SUNK INTO THIS), and all the time I've spent playing video games and somehow makes me considered less than "hardcore"...then good riddance. I mean, really, people who think they're better-than-you gamers obviously have a dysfunction.

My parents were sold on Donkey Konga. They visited me for Christmas a couple of years back and they couldn't get enough

IBERIANPOWER and APE.OF.GODS: Further proof that the vocal minority who consider themselves "hardcore gamers" are just mouth-breathing troglodytes. Go play your FPSs on consoles and tell me how good Madden is. Let me know when you get thrown in jail for date-rape.

I agree, "hardcore" can be a stupid term.

For that matter, I look at elitest gamers in an awkward fashion, as well. Noting a hint to my age, I can still remember the days when I were little (3 to be exact), when arcade owners were didn't want kids and teens playing in their parlours, because they thought it were more adult for them to play (kids/young teens tearing up their machine for just a quarter was a common scare to one arcade owner that I knew back then.)

For me, it took my dad five to ten dollars in quarters a trip to convince the owner that it were okay for us to play. Even at the beginning, adults would scoff at us at first, till they realized that often, we played better than them at the same games. Go figure. This was in the era before the great crash.

Fast forward today, and we have more elitest gamers, most often younger than me, telling me that video games are not meant for people 30 and above... the people who started playing videogames to begin with! It's funny to me that there are some people that think that since stay bag and sticky a few people that they are the gift to videogaming. Give me a fuckin' break!

Casual gamers can also be the ones who were from the Death Race/Wizards of Wor crowd. Most of us are just returning to gaming, as something different is now on the market. Granted, I've been owning systems since the Atari VCS and TI99-4A days, but those of us who took a lapse because we were getting tired of regurgitations, like a zillion 'shumps, a kajillion fighting games, and upteen FPSs, and came back because there were a few companies that thought "ya know what? Maybe audiences around the world want something different."

So lord forbid that we, the original gamers, come back to haunt the playground we once played at in another time.

betcha didn't think of it that way, did you?

At some point, people decided that a "hardcore" game is one with ultra-realistic controls and lots of violence. They stopped caring how that game plays, how much depth there is in the game, and it became all about those two factors. That's why "hardcore gamers" disdain the Wii AS A SYSTEM, rather than any specific games on it.

I've never been a fan of realistic art-styles (for myriad reasons I won't get into here), and I can enjoy a wide variety of beautiful and challenging games. PERSONALLY, I'd rather play a good game than a hardcore game.

Baberg's helpful hints to avoiding feeding the trolls:

Don't feed the trolls

There will be a test on that material.

@GospelX:

Preach it, brother. "Hardcore" seems to mean all those Madden/Halo frat boys that the Xbox pulled into gaming. It means Xbox Live racists. It means those guys who leave when they're about to lose to save their win record. In short, assholes.

Now there are those of us who have ridden this gaming beast for many a year, and aren't disgusted by the Wii. I don't own one, but I only can see 3 games that are out that I like. Once there are more, I'll be on that like hotcakes.

And who gives a damn if it causes a rise in casual games? More casual games means more people playing games. There will always be a place for the more serious gaming experience. But if you took a brand new gamer, and handed them a copy of Devil May Cry 3, I doubt they'd ever come back. Let them gain their footing, at least. And besides, though lacking in long-term substance, casual games are fun.

A hardcore game is simply any game that require a MINIMUM commitment of over 10 hours to complete OR a specialized skill set to complete. (Also, it must embody some sort of adolescent male fantasy)

For example: Wii Sports is NOT a hardcore game - even though people can play it hardcore for hours on end.

RE4 IS a hardcore game, because it requires a person to sit through 10+ hours to complete a single session.

Madden 07 is NOT a hardcore game (semi-hardcore?), because you can pick up an play a game. A Hardcore PLAYER however, can play a whole season of Madden turning it into a hardcore experience.

Command and Conquer IS a hardcore (debateable since it's soo silly) game since RTS's require a specialized skill set to play.

Mario Kart is NOT a hardcore game since anyone can play and the controls/concept is exceedingly simple.

MMO's are all HARDCORE games.

Also, you can play a non-hardcore game in a hardcore way. Hardcore meaning stupidly having no life, in this case. For example, in World of Warcraft, the LEAST hardcore of the MMO's out there, you can still play it in a MORE hardcore way. These people are called CAT-ASSES.

Look it up in your Funk and Wagnalls.

Why is a console not "for you" if other people enjoy it, as well? Why do you have to begrudge others their fun? What is wrong with you people?

@Illusion: Nice analogy.

Doesn't the DS cater to practically the same market and now, what, I think almost three years since the launch of the DS, not many are complaining. Nintendo's rolling in money, third parties flock to the DS, and so there are games like Tetris, Meteos, Nintendogs, and Brain Age for the "casual" gamer, and Final Fantasy III, Brothers in Arms, two Castlevanias, and a plethora of Mario games (which, I might add, definitely appeal to "casual" and "hardcore"). People need to grow up.

@Spinlock:

"Also, it must embody some sort of adolescent male fantasy."

What the fuck? Oh, sorry, I meant- WHAT THE FUCK?

Please god tell me you're being sarcastic, because I honestly can't tell, and it makes me worry for society.

Casual means:

no multiplayer,
no voice chat,
no friendslist,
and then horrors of friendcodes.

This is why the casual aim of nintendo hurts me quite a bit as a wii-owner. :(

@Spinlock: I finished Shadow of the Colossus in 9:59:17. Is it casual?

One thing I've noticed about the Wii is that it's not all soccer moms and grandparents that are buying one, I know several who have upgraded from PS2 to the Wii.

That being said, I remember reading that Iwata directed the engineers, when designing the Wii, to not compete with Sony and Microsoft, but to compete with 'the apathetic attitude that most peopl have toward video games' (I'm quoting that from memory, may not be exact).

So on that level, the Wii is a resounding success. More people playing video games means a greater variety of games for everyone, so it's a win-win situation.

Even if you're a 360 or PS3 guy, consider this: The Wii might be a 'starter system' for some people who never played games before. After getting hooked on video games, some of these people might decide to upgrade to an HD system (let's say for example, they get an HDTV, and decide to get a PS3 to go along with it).

Market expansion is not just good for Nintendo, it's good for anyone who makes or plays video games. Keeping video games as some sort of exclusive boys' club does nothing for the medium or those involved in it.

@eld: Wii sports has multiplayer, as does Brain Age, and Wario Ware. These are hardcore?
Vice Versa, GTA, Zelda, Metroid, Bioshock, and several other games have no multiplayer, are they casual?

When I was still playing World of Warcraft in eight hour shifts, I'd break out Wario/Cooking Mama on the DS to break up the boredom waiting for my group/raid to form up. Made for a nice 5-15 minute distraction.

So I guess I'm classified as Casually Hardcore?

well yes, that is the Wii's main attempt, so mission accomplished. I just wish it would have more single player games; I only have 1 controller at the moment, and the single player library is very limited. only a matter of time though.

Great for Nintendo and the casual gamer but that sucks for hardcore gamers who don't wanna play Wii Play, or Fit, or Sports or something to that nature... Horray for the casuals! Have fun not playing online, chatting, having achievements, good looking games, or exclusive games that don't start with/star Mario, Metroid, Zelda, or any subsidary.

@Ape.of.Gods:

imo Sony were doing the casual thing before the Wii with Buzz, Singstar, Eyetoy et al; and they will again.

This thread is further proof that the terms "Hardcore" and "Casual" are F'ING POINTLESS!

@Gamemaster: Nope. Budget has nothing to do with being hardcore or not. The hardcore games are usually more complicated than casual ones. That's it. It isn't money that makes a game hardcore. It's either the length of the ruleset or the difficulty of pulling it off within a simple ruleset (like "shoot everything"). Hardcore games also usually try to tell a story. I enjoy stories. And I hate the Wii because now companies think they can churn out lousy mini-game collections and still get their 50$ per game. And the worst thing is, they appear to be right.

@mandlebaum123: Or at least F'ING ANNOYING.