I'm sure glad a department store is playing censor. God forbid someone makes something that isn't targeted at kids.

Timers on consoles? Check.
Banning everything aimed at adults? Check.
Suing adults making adult games for adults? Check.

What else can we do to bubble-wrap society so parents don't need to parent?

G-Rate porn, maybe? Man arrives to clean pool. Man cleans pool. Woman pays man for a job well done. Man leaves. Woman bakes cake.

That adult entertainment... If you can't give it to kids, who can you give it to?!

I don't find certain stores not selling a game annoying cause I can just shop somewhere else. Hey if they don't want my money than too bad for them. I just find the whole like MS, Sony, and Nintendo don't allow AO games at all on their systems to be annoying.

@elevenoverzero: Dead people. They can't talk about it, enjoy it, or anything it.

Maybe if Target's influence in the game business was existant, I would give a shit.

But honestly, it's Target.

I don't get up and decide "Hey, I better go to TARGET to pick up this game!"

@AnEternalEnigma: I actually used to buy a lot of my games at Target. It was right near where I used to work before I moved out for college, and they wouldn't hassle me for preorders and shit.

Now I just order most of my games online, because I don't have a car.

Wait.. are we sure target isn't getting this.. or just isn't stocking games as it is.. I went in there the other day looking for Ratchet and Clank and the shelves had almost no games.. and the games they did have were low stock. It was sad.

@AnEternalEnigma:

You know, I actually do buy most of my games from Target. Apart from Costco (which doesn't stock anything but the mainstream games), Target tends to have the best release date deals and actually have stock of said game. I also remember checking on sold-out Best Buys and Gamestops for an extra Wii controller and Wii Sports, and Target had dozens in stock.

Of course, Target doesn't carry most 2nd or 3rd tier games, so I have to go looking for those elsewhere.

I can understand that if faulty organisations like the ESRB can not do their job right, people or companies will stand up for their beliefs or values. It seams Target wants to put out the message that its a "family friendly company", that's all. And just because the American ESRB said its ok to sell, doesn't mean Target hasn't listended to the Ratings Boards across the pond (UK) who are still banning the game for its gory nature.

That all being said, I would really love to get this game...too bad its not on a PS3...or for that matter available for sale here...

@NewSc2: whoops meant Wii Play, not Wii Sports.

If Rockstar had any balls they would say: "OK Target, your choice and we respect that - but no GTA IV for you, either". But they won't.

Expect Walmart to follow.

@El-Suave:

hella true. that would give me a newfound respect for the company, though. i mean, the industry needs to stick up for itself if it's ever to be taken seriously.

i mean, wtf would have happened if a certain movie theater company decided not to show the saw series? the movie studios would pwn their ass, i'm sure.

here's hoping rockstar does stick up for themselves and sets an example for the rest of the industry.

This isn't the only thing that Target does to stay somewhat "neutral" as far as department stores. At the store that I work at we don't sell stamps, tobacco, or newspapers. I haven't gone by the electronics section so I can't say for sure whether or not Manhunt 2 is still there. I've worked at a SuperTarget in Texas for a year and their goal of becoming "The Best Company in the World" (their words) kinda gets annoying.

@El-Suave: That's not Rockstar's call, it's 2K's. And no publisher would ever do that, sorry to bust your bubble.

This is retarded...like I said before, its like banning the sun coz some moron might not use sunblock...

I would gladly put this attention whoring game out of its misery.

I thing I find funny is that the game isn't even worth all this furore.

I think Penny Arcade have it right

[www.penny-arcade.com]

Look, freedom of expression FTW, etc, but this was clearly a case of Rockstar chasing the controversy angle once again.

I'm not shocked by the 'mainstream' attitude to this game any more. I'm absolutely DISGUSTED by the attitude towards it by so-called 'gamers' though. The amount of hate leveled against it by those who hate it just because it is what it is... and yes, the Kotaku writers appear to do the same annoying thing... the number of low scoring reviews that just read like "this game is controversial so we're going to make out like we're big grown ups and hate it!" is just horrible. This is not the best game ever made, people, but it's not even close to the worst either.

Normally I'd say this is just ridiculously dumb and hyper-sensitive. Then I played Manhunt 2 for about an hour or so. Now I think pulling it off the shelves is better for mankind.

Yeah, it's that bad in every aspect. Never thought I'd find a game with absolutely zero fun factor in it.

@stuminus3: The amount of hate leveled against it by those who hate it just because it is what it is...

You mean... a bad game?

Bad games deserve whatever they get.

@badasscat: But I don't deserve having my choices made for me. I'm a big boy now and can choose for myself.

@EloquentZen: The game is not that bad, that's just the bandwagon everyone is jumping on. no one ever expected a mind-blowing-reality-twisting-god-revealing-orgasm-inducing game. I mean it's a game. A stealth game that has animations more violent than Splinter Cell. Seems thought aht for all the talk about not buying the hype, every person that comes along and makes comments like 'enuffz alr3ady! it's teh suxxorz' are the very people that bought into the hype.

My only let down (6 hours in) is the game just isn't scary, which is what I wanted and thought it might be a little scary.

Think for yourself, this herd nonsense is old. OLD!

I'm not saying it's a bad game, per se... but it does cross the line into overly gratuitious in my mind, and that's not really necessary.

Rather than ban it from store shelves, we should probably be moving toward less games involving violence and gore simply for the sake of violence and gore, because it's not really healthy.

I'm not saying all violence in video games is bad, I'm just saying there comes a point where the designers start adding unnecessary violence, such as dramatic, bloody chainsaw deaths because they're 'cool'- THAT's the kinda stuff we don't need.

I've never understood the "charm" of Manhunt from the beginning, so I'm not upset at all that Target has decided not to stock it. It is a bit too superviolent/gory, in my opinion; considering that when families go to target the kids will probably run straight to the toys or games sections, I think Target's just playing it safe and not even enabling kids to get it from them.

@TalKeaton:

i guess i partly share your opinion, as i have absolutely no urge to go see Saw 4. or hostel.. or any of those other movies that rely so heavily on the gore factor.

but at the same time.. do i have the right to tell someone who loves saw 4... "HEY... you should NOT watch that movie. it is bad for you!"

no, i think not. i would probably try to recommend that people don't let children or impressionable teenagers don't watch it, but when you are over 18, i think you are old enough to know WHAT you are going to see, you know its makebelieve, you know its all just fake and fantasy, and you know not to copy those actions, etc.

so, in that sense i feel the same way about manhunt 2. i don't want it. i don't want kids playing it. but if you get a thrill from the crazy gore and violence of it.. all the power to you. if the game is going to make you go crazy and kill people.. you were PROBABLY going to go crazy and kill people anyways..

i don't personally appreciate when stores try to tell me whats right and wrong.. but at the same time... if a store owner feels strongly about something being immoral.. can you really ask him to sell it in his store?

i think as long as there are other alternate places to buy the game.. maybe thats fine.

Target caters to a specific demographic, so it's not surprising that Manhunt 2 is being pulled. The fact of the matter is that Target's main audience is more likely to be offended by this game, so it makes perfect sense that Target chose to not stock it. To the whiny bitches who can't seem to fathom why a family-oriented store wouldn't sell this game: I've worked at Target before, and I've seen them pull various types of products that they received considerable complaints about. Target listens to customers.

Seeing as Target decided to pull Manhunt 2 off shelves what T2 should do is simply not ship any copies of GTA4 to Target stores.

But of course that isn't going to happen but publishers are scared as hell of retailers and the retailers know it.

@sadkermit: I understand that it's not meant to be game of the year material, nor did I expect it to be that, but seriously, it doesn't even deserve to be compared with Splinter Cell. Camera, controls, graphics, story and AI all failed in my opinion. And I'm normally a huge stealth game fan, too. It was one of those games that I had to force myself to try to enjoy, but I was just so disappointed with everything.

I did play the game, and I really didn't enjoy it even when I did try to give it a chance. Don't accuse me of jumping on a bandwagon just because I have an opinion that happens to agree with the hordes of internet r-tards that happens to say the same thing. If you enjoyed the game then more power to you, but this sort of half-assed game design only waters down the quality of gaming in general.

Y'know, this is just a sign of why they should allow AO games in the first place. Because the market will censor itself. Target doesn't want to sell MH2... big deal. They wouldn't have sold an AO MH2 either. But, if you WANT MH2... there are still ways to get it.

I think that Target's move is the first of several retailers who will likely do the same thing, if for no other reason than to "play it safe". I mean... do Wal-mart or Toys R Us even stock the game?

I'd imagine Best Buy and Circuit City will still stock the game, because they're not trying to be a family-friendly experience.

That said, I do find this at odds with Target's usual strategies that include stocking unrated versions of movies like Hostel and unedited Parental Advisory CDs.

I understand the principle some of you have against this action, but then again:

A) Rockstar sells on shock value. I'm glad some retail store says, "Sorry, no. Take your business elsewhere"

B) The game serves no other purpose but to show the most morbid death scenes in gaming. it's a garbage title (yet another from Rockstar) that forgets about gaming and just sells it as "OMG MOST. CONTROVERSIAL. GAME. EVAR!"

Rockstar can stop making games any day now and I would all be pleased just for the bad light they have cast over gaming giving an even bigger stigma against gamers. Get over it, it's Manhunt 2. Shouldn't you be more worried about Mass Effect, Assassins Creed, Call of Duty 4, Uncharted, Haze, Unreal Tournament III...

Manhunt 2 > Target. The 10 minute uncensored Manhunt 2 murder video is awesome. I guess the game is a piece of shit, but damn that murder video is on point.

anyone who thinks that a company has any morals is delusional.

this is how this works. manhunt 2 is hated by all. target wont sell a lot of them
target decides to ban manhunt 2 to get free media attention
billys mom thinks target is a good store that doesnt sell murder simulations
target has aquired billys mom as a customer and sells a lot of new spyro games
target has now made more money and has had free advertising.

Why no PS3 or 360 version? Best Buy has them if you're looking (PS2, Wii, PSP).

I think it is wrong to censor a game or movie that is clearly labelled as a product for adults.
-
That said, everything I've seen of Manhunt makes it look like a shitty game that's all killing and no motive. It clearly aims to glorify the brutality of the deaths. It's nasty.

I am also disgusted by the torture-porn trends in movies a la Hostel and Saw. I am not a fan of human suffering.

@EloquentZen: I agree, it's ugly, the AI is IMHO - on par with most other titles I've played, level design is mediocre and the settings arround the story are laughable, the camera is broken mostly and the aiming with guns is not so hot. I mean a strip club with only a few dudes walking around? C'mon - really, R* should drop all talks about art - this is NO art. But ona whole......and venturing into a fresh sore....going by rankings - this is pretty much status quo for a game in terms of quality. A metacritic score of around 70 is typically a game you can get through, sure it's borderline in many areas.

I think alot were led to think this would be a AAA, nope, not the case....maybe a C+ title. The reference to Splinter Cell is all I can come up with, I could care less about the killings and find myself thinking it's overused.

Mostly while playing this game I can't help but have the feeling that this is exactly why 3rd parties fare poorly on N consoles....it's just nowhere near up to snuff ( :P ) as their software and makes me think that R* should be sentenced to play all of Nintendos AAA titles before making another game.

A bad game though? I can't really agree with that, for sure a game that has sealed R*'s fate with me - I won't buy another game of theirs, simply because the quality level I expect is obviously lacking.

In the end for me this is a passable title to tide me over until Super Mario Galaxy comes along and rips Danny Lamb a new asshole. Then I prolly will not play the game again for years, and when I do...it will look super dated due to the fugly graphics and sloppy camera controls.

But I've played and bought far worse games, haven't you? :)

@coin_operated_boy: Yeah. My real complaint is the lack of a unified front in the video game industry. The movie and music industry can really throw their weight around because studios stick together. Hell, even the comparatively tiny and poor (ha) NRA has major legal and legislative muscle in DC.

Manhunt 2 is a bad game on many levels, it is only in principle that the game should be sold. Just to make the idea more palatable, say this was an effort to get a game like Crackdown, GTA, God of War, or Gears of War banned. It would be nice if video game publishers would act together and tell companies like Target, "Sure, you don't have to sell _____, but we also won't let you sell any of our games."

Imagine EA, Ubisoft, and Activision...and hopefully also Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft, all refusing to release games to stores that sell Saw but refuse to sell Manhunt.

(To bad this will never happen, but I can dream right?)

Target can sell whatever the hell they want to sell. They can stock Barbie Horse Adventures and absolutely nothing else if they like - they operate in the free market and competition is the only dictate there. The complaints to be made are properly directed at the actual censors, such as the BBFC.

Whether or not Manhunt 2 is a good game or bad game is absolutely and entirely irrelevant to the censorship issue.

@TalKeaton: To be fair, the chainsaw kills in Gears of War are ridiculously kickass.

Gears of War is actually redeemable with a given reason why you are fighting... good guys vs. bad guys scenario and it was never marketed as "OMG Horrible game (buy it cause it was almost banned, tee hee" type situation.

Oh and Gears doesn't suck. That's another plus.

you know...i bought this game because i wanted to play it before i couldn't get it anywhere....maybe this weird "anti-marketing" is working?

ALSO....'member manhunt one..(actually a good game if you gave it half a chance and played more than 30 min.) well, that game was only rated M and showed the same nasty gore kills that are edited from manhunt 2...strange. and as far as gears of war goes...dont you get to chainsaw people in the face in that game...with blood pouring onto the screen? jeez, god of war is worse than manhunt.

OH, and yes i understand the difference between GOD of war and GEARS of war...

Um guys, they're doing this to shield their asses from lawsuits. Not to be a big evil censor or anything. They're still selling the GTA games, because the revenue made off of those games are worth the risk of being sued. Manhunt 2, not so much.

It makes more sense NOT to sell MH2 than to sell it. That's it. It's not censoring, it's just what it is.

It's not really "censoring" any more than a theater chain choosing not to show an NC-17 movie in their theater... it doesn't destroy the content, it just says "go elsewhere if you want it, but we're not going to show it."

In any case... the amount of people that this decision affects is probably minimal. I've said it once and I'll say it again. If it hadn't been for the AO stuff and the UK banning, this would have met as much fanfare as State of Emergency 2. It's a crappy sequel to a mediocre original title (again, Brian Cox=Win).

Also, just from a PR standpoint... this is a plain smart move. I'm sure there will be plenty of people who will say "OMFG, I CAN'T BUY THIS, I"M NEVAR SHOPPING THEIR AGAIN!"... but those people will be far less than those people impressed with the "bravery" of a moral stance against MH2, especially since (for once) Target is ahead of the other retailers on this curve.

Is manhunt 2 even good?...just curious...I wasn't that interested in it..

@vecha:
Judging by the comments in this thread... No. The highest praise I've seen it get from reviewers is being "unflinching" in its violence, which, if that's the best that your game can do...

Okay...when Jack Thompson calls Halo or Gears of War a "murder simulator" he's a jackass. If he called this game one, he'd be 100% accurate. Personally, I don't even see a reason for Manhunt to exist. Other games are action movies brought to life in a game context. This game puts you in the role of a mass murderer who dispassionately kills people in the most "creative" and gruesome ways possible. I am definitely fully in the non-censorship camp and say the game should be allowed to exist/be sold, but the fact that it will find an audience among any significant number of gamers kinda scares me.

@FreeJack:
I'm commenting all up in this thread, but I gotta agree with you. The Wii version of this game has made me think thoughts about video game censorship that I never thought I'd have. There is just something so off-putting about this game that makes it really hard to defend.

At least with the first one, there was something resembling a compelling storyline that somewhat justified the violence. In this one... you're an escaped mental patient. Wow. Just... wow. This is like one of those parodies of video game violence that points to the absolute needlessness of it.

Of course, I'm not the target audience. I'm not a big fan of "torture porn" since it's not inventive except while trying to shock (Wolf Creek comes to mind... everything about the movie was lazy except the torture, and even that was just... lazy). Violence and even some "torture" elements can be appropriate in the context of a game (The Punisher being an example, and if I recall, that had an initial AO rating and had to be modified), but this... just seems without merit.

Again, glad that people who want it can get it, but I think that it's the right move for some retailers to pull it from their shelves.

I'm more pissed at Rockstar for putting it out, though, because it just makes growth in the medium more difficult. We're on extremes here, where some people think that video games are just for kids and the other end thinks that they're evil and way too violent for general consumption by any body, and this does nothing but reinforce negative steriotypes about gaming.