Yeah, pissing off all the WoW players is a sure fire way to succeed.

At least he called it "one of the best". I can see his point, but I don't see WoW going away anytime soon. I do agree with Luke though, someone needs to put down SWG. God I hope Bioware gets the license next.

so...he wants everyone playing GemStone, then.

Yes, kill SWG.

Poor naive man, now he's going to take fire from hordes of WoW trolls.

I'd close wow too, its a cess pit. I actually agree with that guy!

I'd close WoW too, its a cess pit. Taking a troll from a WoW player is like getting a paper cut, its easily ignored

instead of closing SWG, bring it back to 1.0, when the game was awesome.

or bring it back to some point before NGE

Yay, atleast someone realises how shit WoW is.

I can't wait for www.darkfallonline.com to come out. Thats gonna be the best thing since Ultima Online!

@Natural: I think you missed the point of his statement - he didn't mean that he would close WoW because it is shit. He would close it because it is the most popular and, in his mind, the best example of the current state of the MMO genre. His reasoning for killing the best is, as the last statement in the highlight says, to let new games get out from under WoW's immense shadow so other gamers can discover them. Perhaps this can help shift the genre into new directions, for as long as WoW reigns supreme, it will be difficult to produce an MMO that doesn't follow the same formula as WoW and still have the same success.

So in other words he would close down WoW because he can't compete with it? I'm sure Macs say the same thing about Windows.

@Dyvid: Thats not what hes saying at all. Read it again.

When I was in college I was hopelessly addicted to MUD's, spending way too many hours playing the games, as my professors would attest to (they never saw me). For me the allure was the character interaction, I felt like a smart person because I was interacting with people from other colleges that were very bright, and they also knew about the MUD universe.

Why just college people? Internet access cost an arm and a leg, you paid hourly rates. Colleges had unlimited access. The result was that these worlds were filled with very intelligent people...and me.

People were extraordinarily friendly and helpful, but the game came second to socializing. And to me that was the amazing thing about MUD's; the ability to break down awkward social barriers and put different minds on the same playing field. It was like being invited to a cocktail party where no one knew anyone else. Gender, race, how you looked or dressed, it was all irrelevant when everyone was reduced to text.

If I could change one thing in the online gaming world (MMO's, Live, etc.), it would be age restrictions. It is easier to relate to, and communicate with, people of the same age group as yourself. I don't want to hear young kids swearing and trash-talking, and similarly I don't want to hear adults screaming vulgarities at little kids.

Surely... the answer would be to implement the things you think are worth implementing? Because destroying WoW so that other people do the work for you seems both lazy and like you're lacking real ideas.

What an awful reason to pick WoW. At least pick a good reason, like the fact that the game at 60+ is all about raiding PVE and PVP groups with no real content if you want to take a break from the equipment/reputation/rank grind and do something else. Or the fact that they copped out, gave Horde paladins and Alliance shamans because whiners bitched and complained too much.

I'd kill WoW just to see millions of people totally distraught and completly unable to cope. It'd make for great television.

I see what he's saying.

And I'd love to play some other MMO for an MMO experience.

But there's just two things:

Blizzard makes their games for Mac. I use a Mac. I'm not playing EQ 1 again, so there you have it.

second, WoW implements well. Its a functional game, and ends up being very fun. Its pure adventure running an instance with other people, fully competent or not. I play MMO's in large part for the group dynamics, and there's plenty of variety for that in WoW.

You make City of Heroes, Tabula Rasa, Star Trek MMo, or a graphic version of GemStone III for Mac, I'll buy it and play it. If it runs well as a game, I'll keep playing it.

Good idea, bad course of action. Those 'gems' stay gems because WoW is superior in general. Why not take control and use the money to make a game that surpasses WoW. Then he can go kill off Starcraft :P

And what's with the WoW bashing in these threads? Like any game is any different ever? What are you supposed to do, keep levelling forever? Compose ballads or feed the homeless? Of course it becomes about gear/the next big boss/the next area/the next kill... that's all it can be about. Ever. You don't like those things, any type of RPG isn't your game. Heck, pretty much any game...

I agree with him. Something I have noticed is that hardcore WoW players have only played that game -- at least the ones I know. They tend to get this idea that they know all there is out there in terms of other virtual worlds despite having never played them. Rather than blow up and lose your shit, which is exactly what Bartle predicted people would do, you have to take his statement to mean that it would be interesting if there was some major event that forced people to try out some other games. This is definitely not about competition. Despite having millions of players, it is obvious that WoW's success is not a realistic measurement for other MMOs because otherwise they wouldn't exist.

Richard Bartle is awesome. I used to play Mud 2 all the time about 12 years ago, and once I had the privelege of being online at the same time as him (and considering there were usually about 20 or 30 people in the game world at once, this was quite special). Mud 2 is still running at [mud2.com], and it is still a wonderful game.

I don't agree with his point about closing WoW though. WoW is damn near perfect, so why get rid of the best MMORPG so that people can go and migrate to inferior ones? Some day, probably very soon, someone is going to publish a game which is as good as WoW, just with more to see and do, better endgame content, and a more immersive and emotional overall experience. It's only a matter of time.

Bartle may be awesome.......

....but, that's really a stupid comment. What is he, some type of commy? Let the mmo market take its own course and eventually every mmo will improve through natural competition. Just like every other market.

Closing WoW soley for the fact that it has so many users, it doesn't give others a chance is stupid. It's too good for its own good?

@mintsauce: Like Plunkett commented earlier, that's not what Bartle is actually saying. The Plunk just chose a bad way to present the quote (he should have also left in the "Er, I would get to do this anonymously, wouldn't I?" that Bartle said right after it).

I think what Bartle's saying in the article is that, while WoW and games like it are actually really good for what they are, there are smaller games that operate in a different way that certain gamers might prefer. However, once a game becomes the "main" MMORPG it becomes more difficult for people to even know that alternatives exist. He wasn't talking about financial competition for smaller games, and certainly not about forcing people to play "inferior" games, he was talking about gamers being able to find games that suit their individual tastes.

However, I don't agree with the "closing WoW down" thing, either. This is a problem with gamers communicating with each other. It's our fault that we place one game on the throne and forsake all others, only to constantly complain about the king we just crowned. We need to take the responsibility to play the field and let each other know what other games have to offer.

This man makes some enormously good points. One thing that I found especially interesting was how easily he nailed the 'stages' of online play. Burnout is something I have yet to see any designer address.

I'm a little disappointed, though, at how many of you people here seem to be misinterpreting his "shut down WoW" statement.

I couldn't agree with him more. It's dominating the market to the point of absurdity, and, even though it's a fairly high-quality product, it really hurts the genre as a whole to see it stagnating into trying to copy WoW's formula. It's becoming dated, the approach has worn itself out, and if MMO games are going to have any future at all, at some point in time it's just got to go.

@mintsauce: The problem with what you just said is that a game that's 'as good as' WoW, but not WoW is going to have less players, which makes WoW the better experience for gamers.

WoW's size and success create more barriers to entry for other MMO projects.

I don't play WoW, because I played a lot of MUD's as a kid, and find WoW to be a very derivative experience. I also don't really like the combat system. But I've paid close attention to the game, and it really is a very, very well made game.

Yeah, in his fakey fake world, I'm sure it all makes sense. What I find interesting is that when the free market system of letting people pick what they want to play WORKS, other people get pissed when a majority head towards the same game. "Punishing" WoW, or any game, for being successful is one of the most retarded things I've read here. If you want to knock it for graphic design or interface issues or whatever, I can see a case being made. Knocking it for being the top game played today? Cripes!

@Kashak: Actually, if he were a Commie, he'd say they should close down ALL MMOs and force everyone to play SWG. His stance is more along the lines of the Antitrust laws currently in place to prevent monoplies. Competition breeds innovation. That's what he's driving at - with WOW taking up all the mindshare, there's very little that can be done to compete, so everyone gets a stale experience.

Richard Bartle = Dinosaur and Idiot

"I don't spend leisure time there. I visit the game worlds (MMORPGs) to see how they're designed. I don't play them as a player - I'm a designer. I've never played them as a player, I can't: I see the design and the machinery too clearly."

Sounds like he's not very qualified to comment on MMO's if he doesn't even try to experience them from a players point of view. Worst game designers are the ones that don't spend their leisure time playing games, and don't really understand the appeal of the games they want to make.

They end up making small niche games that just appeal to very few people.

@Shumina:

Yeah. See the "antitrust" analogy. WoW's got a monopoly on online gaming right now, and it's holding back the entire format. That's the bottom line. I'm sorry if you don't understand that.

@Aseran: What the hell are you talking about? Monopoly. Mono: meaning one. Or single, if you prefer. Last I checked there were a few more than a single online game out there. Each is competitively priced and each has its own innovations that make it worth playing. A monopoly implies that there is no choice, no alternative. That's just not the case. How is it Blizzard's fault if others do not implement changes or push for developmental changes? Your views of the genre stagnating are coming from a personal bias and obviously not business oriented.

Additionally, your spouting of how the model has "just got to go" sounds counter productive in a business sense. As a model, it works. It makes money. If you think there should be changes, then spend money and play other games. WoW wasn't the first cash cow on the block. You want to "blame" any MMRPG for causing your current buyer's remorse, point your finger at Richard Bartle. HE wrote the bible on massively multiplayer.

Better minds than mine have said this in other places:

If you close WoW, I would be quite surprised if even 50% of the players would try another game. They play WoW because it's Warcraft, because it's a Blizzard game. Not because it's an MMG.

It's an off-the-cuff comment, but not one that considers why so many people tried WoW in the first place. Remember that Bartle is the ivory tower guy who opposes adding voice chat to games because - despite all the convenience it offers - he believes it destroys roleplaying (deep guy's voice coming out of an tiny elf girl and whatnot).

If I had a nickel for every one of WoW's eight million players who RP'ed, I'd still only be able to afford a Wii.