Kotaku
Yesterday evening Jeff Williams, former Rockstar employee and current blogger, wrote up quite an interesting post about his time at both Take-Two and Rockstar.
Life During Wartime Working at Rockstar Games gives outsiders an interesting first-hand look into what it was like to work at Rockstar during their biggest boom years. Williams worked at the company from a bit after GTA 3 through to the beginning of GTA 4, he left, he says, because of the company's "inefficiency and unwarranted arrogance" and because of their "lack if taste in video games. Manhunt, it seems, played a big role in his decision to quit.
Some choice, sorta out of context, quotes on the jump:
Every Rockstar project turned into a huge clusterfuck. I mainly blame this on a horrendously inefficient company structure combined with a few individuals who thought they were hot shit but really didn't know anything about either video games or marketing. By that time, Rockstar was arrogant to the point of absurdity.
Every project involved at least four different approvals - Scott, Jenny Gross, Dan Houser, and Terry Donovan. If any one of them requested a change, the project would be sent back. Often they didn't communicate and didn't agree with each other, so we'd do one change only to have someone else up the chain ask us to change it back. Then an argument would inevitably ensue. And when I say "argument", I mean "screaming at the top of your lungs and throwing objects around the office" type of argument.
And honestly, I was pretty vocal in telling my superiors that while I'd do whatever they asked me to do (within reason), I didn't support Manhunt's release. It may sound surprising, but there was almost a mutiny at the company over that game. It was Rockstar North's pet project - most of us at Rockstar Games wanted no part of it. We'd already weathered plenty of controversy over GTA3 and Vice City - we were no strangers to it - but Manhunt felt different. With GTA, we always had the excuse that the gameplay was untethered - you never had to hurt anybody that wasn't a "bad guy" in one of the missions. You could play completely ethically if you wanted, and the game was parody anyway, so lighten up.Manhunt, though, just made us all feel icky. It was all about the violence, and it was realistic violence. We all knew there was no way we could explain away that game. There was no way to rationalize it. We were crossing a line.
You may ask if I knew about "Hot Coffee", the sex scene included in the game. The truth is I did. I don't think most of the company knew, but I was in good with one of the guys closer to the game than I was and he had seen the scenes in question and told me. He couldn't believe it himself, and just assumed the scenes would be removed before the game was released. Technically they were, but they were still accessible in the game for the technologically apt. One of Rockstar's recurring problems was underestimating the technical ability of its PC game customers. In short, I don't think "hot coffee" was intentional - or at least I don't believe those scenes were intended to be found. Rockstar just didn't think anyone would go to the trouble.
I turned 30 while I was there and my view of the world began to change. I lost patience with that lifestyle, and I became infuriated with the company's inefficiency and unwarranted arrogance. Not to mention their lack of taste in video games! Rockstar thought they were better than everybody else, but they weren't good enough for me.
Sounds like someone has a book in them.
Life During Wartime- Working at Rockstar Games [Alphabet City, thanks Startaku]
Comments
Why am I not surprised by what this Jeff Williams fellow wrote about?
Good luck to him finding a much better company.
I've heard anecdotal reports of Rockstar being a shitty company to work for, mostly from artists. He sounds bitter, but nothing he says is particularly hard for me believe.
Good read, its interesting to see whats going on inside of rockstar.
Totally sounds like where I used to work in some sense.
Oh wow, what an arrogant and self-righteous asshole. Truth is, those games sold well and made the company a lot of money, so the consumers must've liked them. Sounds like R* will be better off having this pussy out the door.
Sounds like a whiney brat. They made games you didnt agree with so you left. Good for you. Besides manhunt, which just wasnt that good of a game, they have made great consistently fun titles one after another for years. You have a problem get out. oh wait you did that already!
good luck finding a job at all after those words
Well, sorta what the work atmosphere I imagined from a company that gave the green light on a project where you could "surgically" remove men's reproductive organs.
While I am totally against censorship I do believe there's a line that shouldnt be crossed and Rockstar's been pushing it for the past 7 years.
I totally agree with this former employee.
@ARboom: The guy's just giving anecdotes about his time working with the company. There's nothing arrogant or self-righteous about anything he says.
Considering the amount of controversy that R* seems to relish, I trust what he says is true.
Still banning a game (or not selling it in normal stores) cause you think it crosses a line is dumb. End of story.
Lame.. Quit for whatever reason you want, but trying to get attention by badmouthing the company you were part of and benefited from is just that, lame.
Jeezus, people can be so insensitive and lacking in understanding around here. The guy left because he stuck to his principles, and you're calling him a pussy and whiny brat? I, for one, have respect for him for believing in HIMSELF and having the courage to say 'no thanks'.
I agree that R* has a reputation for pushing the envelope. However, are they pushing the envelope for the right reasons?
Manhunt sold on its shock factor alone, it had nothing to do with the public liking it, most just wanted to see what the fuss was about. It was an absolutely horrendous game, gameplay wise.
With that said, everything he's saying seems about right, and theres no reason to start insulting him for it. "Quick, that guy doesn't like making games about torturing people, he's a pussy!"
The management problems and arguements all seem pretty standard, its to be expected, apart from the childish throwing stuff around the room bit.
Im sure people working at rockstar will write him a great reference and he will find it really easy to get another job now.
''Hire this guy, he's great. If he doesn't like you expect him to personally name you and trash you.''
I imagine he wasn't thinking it would get picked up by a big site like kotaku. However it seems very silly to publically trash a company you used to work for.
I find the way he tries to claim GTA is fine but Manhunt is just too far funny though. Im sure the developers are well aware of what people do in GTA. Not only that but unless im wrong in manhunt 2 you can sneak past enemies and you also don't need to kill them in the most brutal way. You have a choice. Just like how in GTA 3 you don't have to run around town killing civilians yet I bet most of the players do.
So he worked at RockStar New York (Note: Rock Star North did the GTA and Manhunt games) as a Production Team member (Joystiq has him pegged as web producer) and I should really give a shit about the "inside information" he is relaying to us?
No thanks, I will pass.
He wanted out, he got out. Great for him.
Keep rockin' Rock*.
@Intrepid_Homoludens: It's the internet what did you expect. Things likes respecting other people's opinions and understanding their viewpoints are rare.
You'd be surprised. I can see this guy being an advisor over at Gamasutra.com and given his years of experience, he'll have lots under his belt to make him a disireable hiree. And I agree that he could have a book in the works here, giving a former employee's take on the company and how it operates.
Frankly, since he quit the company he could probably get away with describing a lot of things without breaching the confidentiality agreement. I know for sure I'd buy it!
~Otaku-Man
I think he did the right decision if the product he worked on bothered him that much. Exposing what happens in these studios behind closed doors is quite interesting. The screaming and tantrums even happen at Microsoft.
@Kantwon: What I expect is different from what actually happens. And that doesn't surprise me anyhow. In person our dialogue about this would have a different atmosphere.
I own a copy of Manhunt, btw. Never finished it. After a while I thought, what exactly is the point? Also, the control setup was awful, so counterintuitive.
GTA is way freakin overrated. There I said it.
Well, I did have a great time playing GTA3. When R* aren't being dicks and getting into trouble over tax evasion and whatnot, they can make a pretty good game, really. Looking forward to GTAIV.
Im sure Take 2 can take a lot of the blame for the attitudes of Rockstar's management/founders. Seeing first hand the relationship between the two its easy to imagine their huge ego after having Donovan/Houser's dick in Take 2's mouth for so long.
It might be time for Take 2 to assimilate or consume Rockstar like it did with Gathering of Developers and Talonsoft. Rockstar's heyday is long gone.
Hey hope he finds a great job I really feel if the company wants to make a violent game only because controversy sells then that is the wrong reason to make the game. I know this is an idealistic perspective and that is why I just dont buy these games. So maybe they got what they disearved with the Manhunt ESRB rating.
The bad thing that Rockstars actions do to the industry is now the ESRB will view Rockstar games with greater scrutiny and thus other developers games will be measured according to standards set for rockstars releases. Meaning the bar gets lowered and other games suffer because of it. The Flip side to this is it can do the opposite but I think Rockstar has pushed there luck too long for that.
He had a problem with the company so he left. Understood.
But why is he attacking them after he left, whats the benefit? I think it would be hard to go into an interview for a new company and having that floating over your head.
He's a "pussy"? Are you kidding? Wait another 8 years until you graduate from college and tell us again how much you love working for companies where 18-hour days are demanded and your boss bellows like he's trying out for "Full Metal Jacket" whenever he (and I do mean "he") wants his ass wiped.
This guy's story is mild in comparison to what I've heard from others at R*. And yeah, name disclosure notwithstanding, I'd still hire him...and so will someone else. He's smart, which is damned rare, especially in this business.
Most of the posts here are just oozing with unabashed ignorance. Yeah let's knock some guy about the fact that he left a company because the work environment at R* sucked for him and the company doesn't function the way any professional company should. Nevermind that he had personal principles and instead of compromising them for a paycheck he decided to walk away and actually say something about the crappy management at the company he worked for.
No he must just be a "whiny brat" or a "pussy," that's it. Look you guys can just keep following the carrot at the end of the string, drooling all over your idiot radiating selves. Man, talk about blind submission at it's best. Go stick your heads in the sand because that's all you're good for.
It's funny how this Rockstar GAMES employee is complaining. His job exists solely because of what Rockstar NORTH accomplished with their games. After dutifully turning out GTA's, they deserve a pet project.
Thankfully this person is not a developer, so really, i couldn't care less about his opinions.
I think people are misunderstanding the article. He isn't attacking Rockstar, he's writing about his time there. Parts of the article are very optimistic, and he hsa very good things to say about many of the individuals there.
However, he ultimatley didn't like it there, and quit. He revealed some of the things bothering him. No big whoop.
Overall I thought the article was very well written and it was interesting to see his take on Rockstar.
This all sounds accurate based on what I've heard about the company, and the quality (or lack thereof) of the games they produce.
I think Kotaku has to cleanup its posters and ban more than a couple before this becomes a GameFAQs forum. Having a variety of opinions is one thing, but having each newspost end up being like this is incredibly unproductive.
Total respect to the guy for having and sticking to his principles.
He just sounds like he was burnt out in general.
This company is all about making games for 15 year olds. This has been a business forever. Gore and sex always sell with this kids. Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, Porky's, Revenge Of The Nerds, Hostel, Scream, American Pie, etc. etc. etc. They may carry an adult rating but, no adult would go see it, kids trying to be adults will...
Rockstar just goes for that audience. GTA, Bully, Manhunt are great games but would be ok games it they didn't carried that "break-the-rules" theme they all have.
I
@strangepork: "He's a "pussy"? Are you kidding? Wait another 8 years until you graduate from college and tell us again how much you love working for companies where 18-hour days are demanded and your boss bellows..."
Exactly! Often times a lot of teens and college gamers just don't understand how it is once they're out of school and have to worry about paying off student loans, car payments, rent, etc., and THAT is before having to deal with shit at work and sticking to their principles and self-respect.
Good on him i say. I hope a good companies hires him. I don't like R*. I don't think i've enjoyed any of there games.
Most of the posts here are oozing with unabashed ignorance. Yeah, let's just knock this guy because he left R* over totally valid reasons. What a "whiny brat". What a "pussy." Give me a break.
It's unreal how people will jump to the defenses of a company when they obviously know absolutely nothing about the topic. I feel like the guy is a little more qualified to comment on R* than any of you. Just a guess though.
That's fine though you can all collectively follow the carrot at the end of the stick, drooling all over yourselves with that classic glazed look in your eyes. Better yet, just go stick your heads in the sand because that's all you're probably good for anyhow.
Second post was a rewrite because it looked like my first didn't show up - sorry about the double post
@Kantwon:
It's lollypop country wheeeeeeeeeeeee!!
meh, the same can be said about many companies in and outside the game industrty
@VakeroRokero: "This company is all about making games for 15 year olds."
;-) Heh heh, makes you wonder what the average age is of those in here who are attacking Jeff Williams.
@yashichi8bit: I think this is really great information he is providing. I'll stay away from getting hired at R*, thanks!
sounds like a bitch of a company to work for, like being in raid full of 13 yr olds and your the only one with the smallest bit of sense.
either way i hope this guy finds a good place, while some of the things did sound a bit harsh it didn't sound like he was overreacting by the sounds of it.
@BigChiefSmokem: maybe thats cause they are true?
Interesting read, I don't think he was bitter but maybe ... disappointed? I mean your working with a company with a huge ego so you would expect the games to be the top of top quality and to be honest gta games never really looked spectacular even for the amount of detail the game had. I think he is looking for more meaningful things in a game other than, bussin caps in yo ass.
@devil-illusion: "I think he is looking for more meaningful things in a game other than, bussin caps in yo ass."
o/\o BINGO! That's what I meant by Jeff Williams sticking to his own principles. I think he has paid his dues and has taken the abuse long enough. He certainly thinks so, and he deserves much better now. Again, good luck to the guy.
I, for one, respect his decision. Sure snuff games aren't for everyone, and he's eloquently stated just that. However, I still think Rockstar should continue fighting for the release of their game based on mere principle alone.
@crecente: A book in them, eh? [xkcd.com]
Good on him, I just wouldn't mention names. Unless he's willing to have them arrested, I'd respect their privacy.
This was a great read. Its not everyday that you get the info about the ongoings inside an entertainment company during the booms and/or busts that happen based on a few games over a limited span of years.
Anyone that thinks this guy is a whiner or a pussy needs to have their head examined. This isn't the first (and it won't be the last) time that someone who is disappointed in how their penultimate time at the job, that they used to thoroughly enjoy going to, made damn near a complete 180 and left quite the sour taste in their mouth.
@ThisCharmingMan:
Well said. Now imagine if the game was actually *good*, and then we could get behind it for the most important reason --- we want to play it.
Jeff's first quote sadly applies to 99% of the media companies in America. Most of them should go ahead and tack "clusterfuck" and "inefficient" right onto their letterhead.
And to those of you saying his opinions are worthless (or worth less) because he's not a game developer: I'm glad I don't have to work with you.
Honestly he had a problem with the content in Manhunt. Not gameplay. No one can deny that GTA games sell .. and sell incredibly well for one reason. they are completely fun, free, and usually offer something relatively new witch each outing.
He was angry at a lack of cohesion, lack of profession and general direction of different areas in the company. And when your NOT HAPPY ... it takes a lot of brass balls to just get up and leave .. especially when that's your paycheck .. and as anyone who has even come close to trying to enter this biz you know it's not easy.
Personally.. i think this guy will have pretty good chances finding another job.. seeing as how this quite clearly spells out not only the type of company he would want to look for.. but also the type of company he would want to help CREATE and BUILD towards. I know quite a few big studios out there who admire traits like Professionalism, integrity and principles. These are the traits that always GET THINGS DONE... without scandal, corporate theivery and underhanded business bullshit .. no less.
Those of you bashing this guy.. good luck growing up and understanding what it's like to work with real pulled-together pros and not a bunch of arrogant overgrown kids.
he's got a real point - rockstar has a huge problem with the fact that they only have one popular franchise and can't seem to get out of it.
In recent years, table tennis was the closest they've got, but really that was a test/demonstration of GTAIV tech. Bully was a commercial failure.
All of Rockstar's other games are forgettable, have mediocre sales, and usually only stand out if they are like Manhunt and just include senseless violence just to attract controversy.
After reading the whole article, it sounds like Rockstar would operate in a much better way if they could run as a small studio separately from Take 2 management and be free to create their own ideas. T2's branding that this guy described was silly and pointless - throwing everyone in a crowded room and assigning them to teams basically randomly doesn't seem like the best organization...or any organization for that matter.
He says he left after San Andreas so I can only imagine things have gotten better there with Man...Hunt...2....
Um, nevermind.
@strangepork: Man you are so right. Lots of people would hirer him. He has worked on some AAA titles I'm assuming and get has hopefully got some skills from working on GTA4 maybe. Even though the art sorta sucked compared to others yet that could have been because of his management which will speak well of him. Hopefully when he really can do hi resolution art if he is indeed an artist.
Hey I respect his decision. He seems like a cool guy. This is not the fist time I've heard or talk to some one that didn't like how that rockstar thing was going.
"I mainly blame ... a few individuals who thought they were hot shit but really didn't know anything about either video games or marketing."
That's pretty much the standard for the majority of video game companies... At least the one's I've worked for / known people to work for...
I'm no print expert, but what's the point in defining such specific CMY values if you're going to put the K all the way up to max? Black IS black.
I am seeing a number of posts saying "good luck finding a job after this?" Why is that? I have no doubt that a company would hire someone who has a head on a shoulders...
R* = great games, just don't work there.