i'm glad that i'm not the only one who thinks that books arn't handled correctly. people one bat an eye at a 13 year old girl picking up karma sutra or catcher in the rye, but halo and gta aim to steal your soul!!!!

Halo 2 seems a bit much for young kids. Maybe a Mario Party tournament or something geared more specifically towards minors. Nice idea, dubious application.

@eternalplayer2345: Running media through stupid censorship and rating systems is not a way forward. They're handled just fine the way they are.

Video games make me kill people.

@Drunk-Luigi: I hope video games are also your excuse for being retarded.

I think there is a difference here between having it on the shelves and basing a competition off of it. I doubt the library would host a competition for ages 12+ to see who could read Mein Kampf the fastest or All Quite on the Western Front. That would be fucked up. But if it's Halo 2 that's clearly okay.

Why has Kotaku suddenly jumped on to the knee-jerk reaction band wagon instead of applying logic? I miss my old Kotaku. This new Kotaku should reside on Gaia or 4Chan.

Oh well. They're going to go and buy their Playboys and cigars after the tournament anyways. Those damn 12 year olds and their damn 18-year old fake I.D.s

Halo 2 isn't even all that violent. You don't see a blood fountain when you snipe someone. Hell, you don't really see much blood at all, especially in multiplayer. People need to grow up and teach there kids to avoid violence in real life and not act as if keeping their kids away from violent imagery is going to keep them from being violent. It human nature people, you don't avoid it, you control it. If anything, violent video games are a medium of control/release.

@GexX2: That is just an argument over whether or not it should be rated M, not whether or not the library should be advertising tournaments to children younger than the suggested age with permission slips that don't mention the suggested age.

@soulscreme: Calling out the hypocrisy between outrage over video games and apathy towards books with relevant content isn't an application of logic towards the issue? Or is it just on the knee-jerk bandwagon because they post this stuff, related to the idea of ignorance of the very genre they report on?

It's a gamer's blog, the writers are gamers, and if it is relevant to them in a way they feel is relevant to others, they'll put it up. Or if it's cool, or if it's nostalgic - it's their medium to use as they want. And as far as the alternative options go, this is best I've seen.

@Maldron: No the knee-jerk nature and lack of logic is that hosting a tournament and leaving something lying on a shelf are different scenarios. The two inferences do not relate. I mean, the real problem is that by leaving the rating information off of the permission slip the library lied to the parents by omission. The bottom line is that in reality that has nothing to do with whether or not video games are being represented fairly. It has to do with an idiotic event planner screwing up the permission slips. This happened a few years back at my old high school when they wanted to show the kids Schindler's List and forgot to mention that it was rated R. Has to do with full disclosure, not whether or not the game is acceptable.

@soulscreme: A fair point.

WhenI was in High School my school sponsored a Halo 2 tournament. Even went so far as to display it on a 200ft+ projected screen in the auditorium in a mandatory assembly.

@RemyDuvalle: Umm, and? It had to do with community standards. I mean, no 2 towns are the same. I went to high school in the city for 3 years and in the suburbs for 1. The school in the city could have done it no problem, the school in the suburbs would have had trouble. As an event planner, part of your job is making sure that your events are acceptable to your community and that full disclosure is followed.

As much as some might like to think otherwise, there's a big difference between reading about something in a book and viewing or participating in live graphical representations of it in a video game, or even a movie.

I think part of the reasons books slip by is because reading a book implies that you at least have some level of knowledge rattling around in your head. Any dumbass can and will play games, halo2 online is proof of that.

@t0yrobo: I have to disagree with this. Super market romance novels, anything by Steven King, John Grisham, or Michale Crichton. They are written in rather simple and easy to digest language. I was reading these books in the 5th grade. However, the content of them is stuff that some parents would not want a 5th grader reading.

After just reading the Manhunt thread, I see a bit of hypocrisy if this gets you up in arms, since so much of the reliance on ratings is "Let me play what I want, I'm an adult, that's what ratings are for! Kids shouldn't play these games anyway, that's why they're rated at a certain age!"

In this case, the issue is they're ignoring the ratings and advertising for younger-than-"allowed" players to play, and we're supposed to be up in arms about that.

If you want games like Manhunt 2 or whatever to come out it seems like you should be all for revising this tournament-- the ratings are there for a reason, and if they become so widely ignored as to be useless, it just gives those wanting to entire shut games down more ammunition to say "See, the ratings are useless." At the very, very, VERY least, the nature of the game should be made clear on the permission slip. This isn't even a case of bad parenting allowing a 4 year old to buy GTA- the parents will never SEE the game may rely on information provided. (I can see a kid saying it's a game about going to heaven)

@Justin42: My thoughts exactly, thank you. I am getting the feeling that many here have fallen into the mentality that they want to play whatever they feel like and therefore rating should go away, people should shut up, and everybody should agree with their morals. Sadly, this is a mentality commonly held by those in their teen years, before reaching maturity. This also happens to be the bread and butter of franchises like Halo.

It's at Mount Prospect Public Library, no wonder.

The only non Bible thumping holier-than-thou areas in Illinois (for the most part) are in Chicago or in parts of Champaign where the U of I is located.

In between those areas are nothing for the eye to see but corn, soy, pigs, flat land, and people that are about 5-10 years behind the times and about as red as Texas, especially in the south of the state.

I'm not surprised at this at all.

@soulscreme:
Here, here! I don't see the problem with this one. I think none of us would bat an eye if people were complaining about Grindhouse being played at a library for 12 year olds.

There is a lot of bad applications of censorship going on out there, but this one is appropriate and has no greater ramifications.

Pick your battles a little wiser.

@JohnnyLA: Wow, great argument. Stereotyping and class descrimination is totally the way to win this argument.

Is that really a copy of Anne Franks Diary that's in the banned bookcase?!? LOL!!!

@beckerist: Well, Germany has a law banning the depiction of Nazis in media. So I'd assume they are one of the countries that ban that book.

I imagine most 12 year olds have played Halo 2 anyways. I'll never really grasp why that game is rated M. Or the first one.

Like I used to say back in the day:

I bet there's more 12 year olds that have played GTA and Halo than there are 12 year olds who own gamecubes.

@soulscreme:
No, "The Diary of Anne Frank" is NOT banned in Germany.

I can certainly get behind an argument against their game selection because of it's content, but I can't feel too outraged over their lack of disclosure, because it (to me) doesn't seem like subterfuge, but omission.

On top of which, if my kids need a permission slip to attend a function, I'm gonna know what it is exactly I'm signing off on. If that entails a video game, movie, etc. then I have 2 choices: learn about it and make a judgment call, or sign blindly and give up my right to be outraged.

@soulscreme: I think you're partially correct. I can't be positive about this, but I don't think Germany bans historical references to Nazis. I think they do ban any material that could be considered to glorify Nazism, but the Diary of Anne Frank certainly isn't "glorifying", it's doing exactly the opposite. I don't think its banned (they also made a film about Hitler in Germany a few years ago).

If I had a guess I'd say that Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria are your best bets for nations where The Diary of Anne Frank is banned. A book about a girl who died in the Holocaust doesn't go over well in nations where much of the population doesn't believe that the Holocaust ever happened.

Rock on library. there right its not there responsibilty to tell parents what the game is about. A responsible parent should take time in knowing what there kid is doing and not sign a permission slip to get the lil brat out of there face. if you're that protective of your child DO SOME GOOD DAMN RESEARCH ON WHAT THERE GETTING INTO, your the kind of parents that ruin great games for the rest of us, and you should get your tubes tied and never reproduce again.

yay venting!

@Sparkamus: I was just hinting at the fact that there are a number of countries and ideal sets that would ban such a book. In reality the US is very liberal in how we treat our media. Shows openly mocking the president, past wars, etc. are shown on TV rather frequently. We allow media depicting sex, violence, odd religious, lifestyle, and moral choices to be distributed. We simply classify them by maturity. In many countries around the world most American media would never make the cut.

However, to remain in a state where this sort of thing is allowed we must make a conscious effort to inform people to the content of said media. The idea is that those who want to experience that content or want their children to be allowed to experience that content can. However, the idea is also that somebody who would be offended by such content can be aware of that fact ahead of time.

I think that many people don't get that I, as a Catholic, would not want to play a game in which the church is profaned in a serious manner. I also would not want to watch a film to that regard or read a book to that regard. Thus, for MY rights as a citizen, I should be informed that such content is included. Also, to raise my future children in a way that I believe is correct I should also be notified when such content may be shown to them.

For instance, "The Last Temptation of Christ" seems like a movie that a Catholic might watch. However, upon seeing it's R-rating I would research it and learn of it's crass depiction of Christ. Those wishing to abolish the ratings system are trying to force their opinions on morality on the general consensus just as much as those who want to entirely ban certain media.

I coulda swore my local library had a whole series of KKK books (not just info books, but actual scripts). Hell the bloody bible is more violent then most games... But yeah, ban the games!

@Scazza: Who banned a game?

@Kuraudo: i'm not saying everything must be rated i'm saying that if you're gonna hold certain entertainment to a code of conduct of sorts be fair and due it too all. Either have rating on everything or nothing and let the publisher apply the warnings.

@Scazza: To be more specific, you are an idiot.

This thread has nothing to do with the banning of any game. Moreover, to date, the US government has not banned a single game. Ever.

I am a network admin at a library. We have a teen room at both our branches.

The teen rooms have high spec dells (i know but the warranties rock) with battlefield 2,call of duty 2 and a whole bunch of newer fps ,rpg,rts,and sports games.

As long as the games ratings are teen and under we buy and install the games.

We have not had a single parent complain about the games or how violent they are.

In fact we are having a call of duty 2 tournament coming up :)

I know a pretty popular book with plenty of "violence, maturity or societal subversion"n that's extremely accessible to children...

The Bible.

@eternalplayer2345: um... whats bad about a child reading catcher in the rye? i dont recall the erotica chapter. in fact, whats wrong with the kama sutra is a valid question, but lets not go there, since i appreciate americans are funny about that sort of thing. 13 year olds, girls especially, are passing much worse than that around, i assure you.

As a librarian who has put on Halo 2 events for up to 100 teens at a time.

1. Consider that Gears of War is also M for Mature, like Halo 2, but is a far more graphic game with the additions of the curbstomp and the blood-splattering chainsaw and body-splitting grenades. I think the British pictorial ratings system is a bit superior in that it informs you as to what might be objectionable.

2. The rating systems for video games is far to granular and needs to be more explicit especially when the multiplayer content is different from the single player. Essentially, single and multiplayer are two different games in many cases. The rating system is applied to the whole game, cut scenes included. In a tournament, you're only using the multiplayer component, which only contains one portion of the content. When asked by a parent concerned about the rating of Halo 2, I responded that, *in my opinion* the single player cinematic cut scenes and the single player game (wherein NPCs could speak, swear, etc.) were more intense/graphic (Gravemind, for example) and worthy of the M rating, while Halo 2 itself as a multiplayer game was largely very much like paintball if the paintballs in question fire red bullets. Consider that GRAW 2 is T for Teen... I don't see that Halo 2 multiplayer is much different.

3. Many parents were fine with Halo 2 being played. Some had played it themselves, and believed that the Mature rating, while cautionary, was not so applicable that it should stop their teen from participating. Indeed, in the end, while the rating may inform, it is parents who should make the final call, not the ESRB or the library.

4.If teens find Halo to be popular, then it becomes something that libraries should look into as it has media available that can cross promote in the library - novels, art books, magazines, CDs... Familiarity with the content instead of blind reaction to a rating is important.

5. Not noting the rating IS, in my opinion, irresponsible on the library's part. At my events, we posted the rating on the door, with the reasoning behind it.

Sorry, forgot to finish: we also posted the ratings on the event flyers. We required a valid library card for sign up. This got many teens to come and get a card when normally they would not. We did not require a permission slip; similarly, we don't stop a card holder from checking out anything at the library - it's not our responsibility to censor information or events. It's the parent's.

These events went on for two years.
This year, the are no longer allowed (though I was told I - and only I - could host them due to the local success. Other libraries who requested to put on Halo 2 events were denied), despite the fact that the success of my events prompted the library district to purchase 4 Xboxes.

Every week I get 1-3 or more teen boys in the area asking when the next Halo tournament is. We have not had one for a year. This says, to me, that this is a desire that should be met by the library, not run away from due to lots of bad press about video games. Normally, teen boys never ask about future events. This is a coup, IMO. Sadly, it looks like it will not continue.

Tomorrow I host a Dance Dance Revolution tournament with the X360.

In a month, I leave my library district for a smaller one that is less worried about bad press.

Kneejerk reaction can go both ways.

I don't see any problems with any library doing this sort of thing-- it gets kids in the door, and that's great.

My only concern is if gamers try to hide behind the "But it's rated T/M/AO, kids shouldn't play it, hands off my game!!" reasoning, then ratings should at the very least be noted and respected-- because if ratings get ignored, people like He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named will be all over it, saying ratings are useless and game makers should be responsible for what people are doing with their game after release.

Halo 2 was picked because so many kids play it. Their parents allow them to.

If you kid comes needing a note for this tournament, you will want to know what Halo 2 is before signing the note. If you do, and consent, what the fuck is the big deal?

Seriously. This old-ass hipocrites need to change their attitude about gaming. There is no real evidence that games are increasing the violence of our youth. It is just something they have never played, don't understand, and therefore fear. Grow up you old bastards.

@soulscreme: Hey, I read All Quiet on the Western Front when I was 12, and I'm still perfectly fine today- it was a pretty good read, in my opinion.

My library was very anti-permission slip, probably since it is a form of censorship that is made the library's responsibility, rather than the parent's.

I think the big failure here is simply that Halo 1 and 2 should never have been rated M in the first place. Because of the inoffensive nature of the content of those extremely popular games, parents now think that the Mature rating is inconsequential.

Gears of War, Resident Evil 4, Dead Rising... now those are M-rating material.

@Toasticus: I've always wondered why Halo was rated M. I think it's because of the human form Flood.

@Toasticus: I agree. The MA rating is definitely shooting MS in the foot here. So many T rated games are the same as Halo in terms of content.

I had heard that Halo was originally rated T, but was later made M to boost sales... is this some sort of urban myth, or is it true?