Kotaku
By: Luke Plunkett
So Kojima's address at GO3 contained...not much, aside from a casual stroll down memory lane. Straight afterwards, though, I had a chance to sit down with Mr. Kojima (sadly, no tea OR biscuits) and talk Metal Gear, movies and "the rumble guy".
This year marks the 20th anniversary of Metal Gear. 20 years. It's a long time to be making the same game. So I ask him if he's surprised that he's still churning out Metal Gear games this far down the line. "I'm very surprised", he says. "Twenty years ago when I created my first one, I thought it'd just be over. To be more extreme, I didn't think the fist one would sell at all!".
Oh, but sell they did, and when games sell, you make more of them. "But I have kept making Metal Gear games", he says. "When I look back, while it looks like the same game, I've been adding new features and using new technology each time, so it's never felt like I've been making the same game."
This focus on new tech was a big part of his address, as with each advance in console hardware he says he was able to make fundamental changes to the series, culminating in the crazy wartime escapades of MGS4. "I have to say, the evolution of technology, that has helped me to keep 'creating' Metal Gear", he adds.
Since Metal Gear Solid 4 has come up, I do the polite thing and ask how it's coming along. "Its almost at the 'shooting stage' of creating a movie", Kojima says. "All the design and scenarios are finished, we're just completing the actual game".
It's been a long time coming, so it can't have been easy. Kojima agrees. "Nothing was easy", he says. "Everything has been hard, because we've set not just a high bar for ourselves but a number of bars. So there's nothing easy, everything is hard!"
With rumble having been a key aspect of the series thus far, I ask him his thoughts on the issue now that Sony and Immersion have made kissy-kissy. "I want to use rumble, yes", he says, "but it's a race against time. If it can make it in in time I'd like to use it, yes."
"The part that's troubling me, I cant really say...". He pauses. Oh, do go on: "...but we always designed the game without rumble, and I had great ideas without rumble, so if rumble comes back we have a decision to make whether to leave that new feature in or to take it out and replace it with rumble".
Could you patch it? A later update would at least give players the choice. "I want to implement it, rumble, yes", he says. "I'm not thinking about a patch, though". Oh. Well, early days, I guess. Maybe rumble and motion-sensing can't get along after all?
He won't say, but if he had to choose between the two, it looks like rumble would win out. His "other" idea doesn't have a nickname and a long-term relationship with the company. "Ever since MGS1 there was a specific guy, nicknamed the 'rumble creator', who worked on it for us", he says. "But he's been on a long vacation since we didn't think rumble was going to be in MGS4, so we're calling him back right now". Hmm. Long vacation sounds...ominous.
Moving on, I remind him of a comment he made last year comparing each of the three current consoles to "different kinds of dinner". Did he still think that was the case, now that all three are on the market? Nope. "They're more like a movie theatre metaphor", he says.
"The PS3 is like the theatre, it's a little bit high-priced but it has to be high quality as well. The 360 is a DVD, it still needs to be high quality but you need more variations, while the Wii is almost like a TV channel, because every game you have it with your family".
I look for a funny/revealing insight into the comment, then realise he's probably quite close to the mark. Still, by that admission, if the PS3 is Hollywood, is he feeling the heat of being the system's first big, exclusive title? "Yes, there is pressure", he admits, "but there is Final Fantasy XIII coming out as well, so it's not all me!".
Still on MGS4, I ask whether this really is the end. He's said repeatedly he wants to walk away at the end of this game, and the trailers seem to show everyone from the series getting together for one final shootout. So when MGS4 hits, will you hang up your boots? "Well, atually its really up to the users, its up to them to decide", he offers.
"If users want more Metal Gear, then I will probably step up as producer, like the James Bond series does", he says. "That way I can have new, upcoming directors making MGS while I oversee the project, and then perhaps I can move onto something new".
Something new, eh? Like your long, and oft-rumoured collaboration with Suda? "The collaboration with Suda is a little different", Kojima says. "It's something I've been thinking about for about 10 years now, but unfortunately can't concentrate on right now because we're so busy with MGS4".
Pity. So, Devil May Cry 4, going multiplatform. Thoughts? Comments? "I think it's up to each project, and the individual producer", he says. "If they want to take it multiplatform, they will". I'm going somewhere with this question, and he knows exactly where that is...
"But like I said, MGS4 is aimed for the movie theatre, it's aimed for the PS3, so the game's scenario and graphics need this theatre-type hardware. It's when a producer has a game that can work on the 'DVD level' that a game will go multiplatform", he says. Sorry kids. Your "OMGMGS4360" banners will have to come out another day.
Since we've opened up this can of worms, I may as well get his thoughts on it. Why, I ask, do you think this rumour simply refuses to go away? "Because 360 owners want it on 360, obviously", he quips.
Righto. Moving right along, I ask about Kojima Productions. Does having your own company make it easier to focus on games, or are you finding yourself caught up in boring business stuff?
"That's a very difficult question to answer, because I can't really say", he says. "It's both. It's now quicker, the speed of making games is faster. But at the same time, because of this speed you need to make tough business decisions quicker, so it's had both its good and its bad points".
Anyone who's sat through a good, hearty MGS talk-fest knows Kojima loves his movies. So I ask, if you had your time again, would you have still gone into games? Or would you have rather made movies for a crust?
"Well, if I could go back in time to the point where I hadn't created a game yet, and didn't know how much fun they were, then I would probably choose to become a movie director", Kojima says. "But, don't get me wrong, it's really fun to create games, and knowing how much fun games are I'd take the same path. I hope I can continue to create games for as long as I live".
But what about media outside of movies? Do you draw inspiration from books, comics and music? "Well, yes, everything", he says. "Novels, comics, it all effects me and inspires me. I only have 24 hours a day, so I listen to music while I work, I can read books when I get home and only after those, because they take so much time, do I watch movies. But they all inspire me".
And that was that. Charming fellow. And rad MGS4 shirt to boot.
Comments
"um, Hideo, um. I bring you a surprise!"
"Luke, you so nice. You bring me some nice red and blue tulips. Are they edible?"
"Um, tulips???"
All bow before Kojima.
Would it kill them to commit to a release date for MGS4? I WANT IT NOWWWWWW
You're awesome.
You got him to say that the 360 can't run MGS4 and that it won't be coming.
That's big, considering the rumor has been floating around quite a bit, and they didn't exactly go out of their way to say "No, there will never be a 360 edition of it".
Now we know.
Great notes. You kicked some ass on this one.
It's funny that he wouldn't refer to the 360 as an HD-DVD as opposed to standard DVD. Maybe he doesn't know that the 360 can output "theatre" quality games, too.
Someone buy that man a 360.
Damn you Luke. My little fanboy Metal Gear heart has been crushed because I own a DVD and not a movie theatre. Wait... what?
er... so PS3... a sandwich or a taco salad?
I can't believe you didn't ask about ZOE3!!!!
I respect Kojima's decision to focus on one system in this day and age where multiplatform approaches are more and more common. It is true that each system has its own personality and architecture. For the 360 and Wii users out there, I imagine when Kojima makes a game for those systems, it will be something worth salivating over.
LOL, he has some funny metaphores, but I can see where he is taking this. And I kinda agree. This gen, with gaming becoming so much more mainstream, will be the time where all systems will be pretty equal, where they all co exist, and each one will give a different experence.
Movies, DVD's, TV. they all co-exist, and eaxh one has there own demographic, with many people liking all three.
cringer8 says: It's funny that he wouldn't refer to the 360 as an HD-DVD as opposed to standard DVD.
Well you can sugar coat it all you want to make yourself feel better, but no matter what the 360 is a DVD platform. Games are not HD-DVD, not now, not ever.
I think it is interesting his take on the 3 consoles though. Theater, DVD player, TV Show.
Seems like he has very little... faith ... in the 360. It is a great platform, but I would imagine that in eyes of developers the difference in space alone will become more apperent.
And great job with the Interview, finally some info about Multiplatform.
Kojima is one of the few developers who has the clout to do things the way he really wants to for his games. And, because of that, I don't see MGS4 going to the 360, unless it somehow manages to undersell on the PS3. Since it appears that Sony is 'saving' all the good games until after MGS4, that doesn't seem likely. (note that by 'saving' I meant, 'not having any')
While it's sad that I won't be able to enjoy MGS4 with out doling out MAJOR cash, I respect Kojima-san's dedication to his game. While any major developing house can put out a good multiplatform game, the fact is the truly epic, console moving titles almost always require the focus that comes with console exclusivity.
It's not as though multiplatform games are signifigantly lessened, but they do lose a certain focus. This seems especially true of "AAA" titles, the big, cinematic gaming opus.
And now that I've said all that, PLUNKETT! What the hell, damn guy? You were in front of the man himself, and not one question about Snatcher? It's 20th Aniversary is next year, for Hideo sake!
mark my words... MGS4 will be out for DVD one day
I mean look at Lord of the Rings... everyone said that you couldn't take the film cans home and run them on a DVD player but one day a savvy group of people actually created a magical version that would indeed play on a DVD player.
@cringer8
he obviously wasn't talking about the output quality of the consoles, he was using it as a metaphor to refer to the target audience and his interpretation on the standards of the consoles.
So MGS4 really comes to 360, every Theater movie ends to be a DVD.
I'm looking forward to MGS4, but the idea of playing Zone of the Enders 3 op PS3...
You should have asked him whether or not there'll be a ZOE3 :' (
I hope he finishes MGS soon so he can work on ZOE, or maybe a next gen iteration of Policenauts? Who knows.
Will videogames ever again have those moments that you realize the ice-cubes are melting?
In all honestly, I would much rather watch a DVD on my home entertainment system then go to the movies. So much better watching a good movie, on a HDTV, with surround sound, in the comfort of my home.
The theaters are always over-rated. You pay $10 (the price of a DVD) to sit in uncomfortable seats, with sticky floors, people talking, cell phones going off, no pause, and usually grainy picture quality. On top of that, it's another $10 for a small popcorn and a small drink.
I guess he's right, the PS3 is expensive and over-rated.
I quote the previous poster.
No Snatcher? No Policenauts? Ahwww...
People seem to forget... After the movie theathre, movies do get released on the DVD ;)
Frankly i think his dinner comparison was probably closer to the mark then this particular comparison.
With the dinner comparison it's easier to justify the comment in that the Playstation is costlier and provides for some fringe benefits that the 360 doesn't (namely the larger storage medium if you really get down to brass tacks.)
There is a much bigger difference between the theater experience and a DVD then there is a Nice restaurant and a nice home cooked meal. And frankly the real differences between the systems don't warrant the comparison. Anyway, if it comes to the 360 so much the better, if not then i play it on a PS3. 6 in one half a dozen in the other.
@cringer8:
Actually he is an openly HUGE fan of Gears of War.
Great interview with one of the greats. But I really would like to hear more his views on the future of games. If there's only one brain I could pick about 3.0, downloadables, motion sensing, and gaming's cultural relevance, it'd be his.
Oh, and also ask something about ZOE3.
@logikil: A dozen is just two sixes duct-taped together.
So it's pretty much confirmed that MGS4 will remain exclusive to the PSTRIPLE; at least until there's a port a la MGS3 on the original Xbox.
BTW, was this conversation originally done in English or Japanese?
I would pay good money for a shirt like Kojima has on.
I'm really looking forward to MGS4 and can guarantee it'll be a great installment in the series. If I have to I'll buy a PS3 just for this game. Come launch day, if no word on a 360 release is out, I'll be walking out of the store with a PS3 and MGS4.
Hopefully a 2007 release is still possible. I'm sure we'll see more at E3 soon!
You should have asked him details on Smash Bros.
In a sort of sneaky way that'd lead to some (perhaps) useful information... even though I doubt he'd know anything.
Plunkett needs to work on his Crecente-grin when posing with the likes of Kojima.
@Quattuor: Brian's grin is painted on I thought
If that's true, then those damn party hats have destroyed the only way I was going to be able to play MGS4.
he said it perfectly with the ps3 is like a movie theater. xbox like a dvd, and wii like a tv.
Take the ps3 comment for example, in a movie theater, you go there once pay 14 bucks, and another 14 on food, half the time walk out dissapointed, get 40 min of advertisements, and rarely go see the same movie twice.
Did anyone else see his comparison in this manner? (Just a lil fun picking, but I'll go here anyways, lol):
PS3=Theater
Xbox 360=DVD
Wii=TV
Now the movies come out in the theaters(PS3) first, right??? Then what happens after that? Depending on how much money it rakes in, it might stay in theaters for a long time...or maybe a short while. Then it makes it way to what...DVD(360)!!! Then after it has its stay on DVD, where does that movie head to next?? Why of course, it heads to TV(Wii)!!
So with this look at the comparison, yeah it will start out on the PS3, but it could sooner or later make its move to the 360 in the form of a different version maybe(Sustinence??). Then (yeah, this is pushing it very much) it could make its final stop on the Wii...but we seen a port of MGS on Gamecube before, so maybe its not too wild a thought. And you read that MGS4 already has motion-sensing implemented...so it wouldnt be to much work...just getting the graphics right (which makes me ask, has anyone ACTUALLY seen the TRUE, not speculated, tech specs of the Wii. I'm still looking).
Then I'm going to say my own comparison connected to his. You notice that not everything comes to the theaters...sometimes it skips it becomes a straight to DVD movie and on to TV. But there's also the rare ones that skip theaters AND DVD, and go straight to TV. But it always comes to DVD at some time. So what does that tell you??? Well, I'm out!
@Dmoney05: I think you're reading a little too much into it dude. You're not going to see it on 360 and you're reaaaallly not going to see it on the Wii, a system which has virtually no horsepower.
"The PS3 is like the theatre, it's a little bit high-priced but it has to be high quality as well. The 360 is a DVD, it still needs to be high quality but you need more variations, while the Wii is almost like a TV channel, because every game you have it with your family".
Cool. =)
"But like I said, MGS4 is aimed for the movie theatre, it's aimed for the PS3, so the game's scenario and graphics need this theatre-type hardware. It's when a producer has a game that can work on the 'DVD level' that a game will go multiplatform", he says."
Lol. =))
huauhahua Kojima never fails
MGS4 exclusive PS3.
And now with MGS movie by Sony Pictures is impossible to X360.
i want kojima's shirt NOW
Cheers to Kojima for concentrating on the game and not selling out like Capcom. I understand that game companies need to make money, but the multiplatform nonsense of the current generation is just hurting consumers in the end. I believe that Metal Gear Solid 4 will be a better game since it is being developed exclusively for the PlayStation 3 and Bioshock will be a better game because it is being developed just for the Xbox360. (Bioshock could be even better if it were being developed exclusively only for Xbox360 or PC in my opinion.)
I had planned to buy Metal Gear Solid 4 before this, but now I will be in line on the first night for sure!
@loc182: If one more goofy fanboy talks about Capcom 'selling out', I'm going to freakin' explode.
MGS4 has been in dev for YEARS. Probably the first PS3 title in development, in fact. DMC4 hasn't been bricked out anywhere near that long, so going multiplat at this stage isn't going to see a severe quality drop. I refer you to Armored Core 4 and Oblivion.
Games like Halo and MGS are built from the ground up for a specific hardware set.
Don't confuse Kojima's singular focus for brand loyalty.
@eunoia:
You pay 14 dollars on snacks every time you go to see a movie, huh? How much do you weigh?
All relations with consoles aside, you guys are putting rediculous numbers and suggestions out there. Like you're any more likely to be blown away by a DVD you *chose* to rent than with a movie you *chose* to buy a ticket for? Give. me. a. fucking. break.
In my town, renting a dvd = $5.50, and a movie ticket is $8.00. And wonder of wonders, I'll bet it's the same (give or take a dollar) for all of you guys up on the cross complaining about the price of the PS3.
Every single movie that goes to the theather .. is ported back to DVD .. and then finnaly ends up on TV .. he totaly sucks in analogies for a writer.
That movie theater, DVD, TV comment was so confusing. Anybody else not sure what that meant but think it's annoying the people that are making assumptions about it? Was he saying 360 hardware couldn't do MS4? If that's true I'd really like to see some of these "movie theater experience" games to know what he's talking about.
PS3: it also plays games!
His Wii project with Suda is something he wants to do since ten years? Seems like "Project S" is in fact a sequel to Snatcher. Perhaps we will find out more at Grasshopper's "Snake vs Zombie" event at April 14th.
On my "grin": Aki Saito, GM of Konami Europe, was cameraman. He doesn't say "cheese", he says "butter", and took the photo on the "B". Very funny.
On the shirts: So rad. You can see the front, on the sleeve was a big red 4 and on the back, in the same font as the logo, was "MGS4STAFF". Doubt you'll ever see one on eBay, but if you do, they're very nice.
@gils0n: Thats what everyone thought about every game that Nintendo had before N64 hit, RE4, Killer 7, Viewtiful Joe(which was all ported to a less powerful system), DMC4, Tekken...you see where I'm going?? And it wouldnt take that much to port it towards the 360. And if they did it with MGS:TS...why not a toned down version of another one. May not be MGS4...but it could be a MGS none the less. So my thoughts really arent that far away.
@Ludwig:I dont know if you read my comment above yours, but thats exactly what i was thinking.
@cringer8: Sour grapes? YES.
@pleiades:
My comment was more of a joke about him not acknowledging that DVD is being replaced in the techie world. I understood his statement and I believe he is waaaayyyy off.
Everyone wants that "theatre" quality gaming experience (still speaking in metaphor). He tries to make it sound like the 360 either *couldn't* supply that experience or the users don't care for that experience. Is that accurate?
@cofn42:
Ummm, what? Were you absent when MSFT put out the update that allows games created at native 1080p to play in 1080p off the 360? It's a true HD machine, just like the PS3. The same "theatre" graphics and speedy calculations can be attained on the 360. The PS3 is a powerful machine for sure, but the 360 is no slouch.
@scepia:
Huh? Sour grapes? I couldn't care less about the exclusivity of MG4. I don't own a 360 or PS3. I will not get to play this game unless it comes to the PC.
I'm sorry if you misunderstoond my comments. Damn I hate fanboys. So defensive.
You guys just miss his point. It's not about PS3 first, other later or "Sony Loyalty". It's just impassable to port on 360 because of hardware limitation. Gear of war push 360 to the limits. But in price… SP game only last for 20-30 minutes. Game is too short.
Do you really want him to port MGS4 to 360 without truHD video and audio support and the game play last for 10 minutes?
@cringer8:
Truth comes out. Why post about exclusivity if you are only buying if it comes to PC? You say that you hate fanboys but that was a fanboy remark.
Hmmm, I guess I should explain that last line was a joke, (someone with a Pokemon avatar being a SONY fanboy...I thought it would be funny).
I should just stop joking around here.
@DigitalHero:
Holy crap. Do you *read*? I'm not posting about exclusivity at all. I'm challenging Kojima's remarks. Am I not allowed to do that just because I haven't decided between the two consoles?
I think he's wrong about 360 owners having different needs than PS3 owners.
And what "truth"? Have I been hiding something?
360 pre-Elite is not a full 1080p machine; sorry. It doesn't have HDMI, and most TVs do *not* accept 1080p over component. VGA is usually not an option, either, because even those few TVs that correctly accept VGA input with overscan usually do not provide picture quality controls for that input, and 360 doesn't provide such controls either.
Elite is a different story.
@RedRedSuit: "with overscan"
Without overscan, I mean.
Maybe all the time and development he's put into Metal Gear Solid 4 is proving to need a "larger" medium than just a DVD-9.
Perhaps he's looking to show us what can be done on a next-gen console when not confined to 8.4gb on a "DVD"... He's focused on something bigger, thus, the theater metaphor (and a blu-ray sized optical disc).
For whatever you all take it for, he's saying that his vision of this game is too big to work on the 360.
That isn't a slap at the Xbox and it doesn't mean that games like Gears of War aren't great... Making a game multi-platform doesn't always make sense. Why's everyone so touchy?
Maybe if the game is a huge success they'll spend some time seeing if it is possible to port it back to the "DVD" format and have it playable on a 360. That wouldn't be unheard of...
But thanks to this article we can all stop reading rumors and April fools jokes, and simply be content in the knowledge that when MGS4 is released, it will be on the Playstation 3.
(Thanks for the interview Kotaku!)
Well said blymik.