Wow! That actually explains alot of the things that happened concenrning the Battlefield series.

BTW: Dice? Im not buying your next game. I just wanted you to guys to know.

Thats not true at all. There are many, many people out there that never touch a message board for the game they play.

Be it that they don't care or they don't want to deal with the smacktard trolls that infest such places. Many of which have no clue what they're talking about other than they like to see themselves bitch online.

minor problems like BF2 working fairly fine in single player but being an unstable hunk of crap online?

and guess what, i dont play BF2 every day, frankly they are lucky i end up playing it once every few months!

i play BF1942 much much more, why? because its vary stable and fun, i dont need 80% of what was added to theBF2, all i liked about it was the new scoring system where you get points for using your kit properly, destroying vehicals even if the crew memebers escaped.

but my number one problem with BF2 is the fact that their maps can be reduced in size by 50%(i **** you not) and nobody will notice, because most of the map is covered in a "no-mans land" that you die if you spend too much time in(10 secounds exactly).

oh and theres no jets in single player. ITS NOT THAT HARD! BF1942 had them in single player you dunces!

Florian, i tip my hat to you. Well played.

EA/Dice, give up, sell your franchises and let someone who knows how to make a game put out your stuff for you. Not since Tribes 2 have i been this disapointed in a game developer.

There definitely are jets in singleplayer Evirus. On Operation Cleansweep you can fly them. Alternately, you can mod the game to let you use the full size maps in SP.

Nice good to know EA does not give a shit what you think...way to go with that one Dice!

Damn, glad I don't buy DICE games.

I figured that Battlefield 1942 was a pretty good game that'd get better and that they'd fix the Interface issues in the next version. Then I bought Battlefield Vietnam.

Now I know better.

Wow. DICE gives me yet another reason never to purchase their games. I mean... the shitty quality was keeping me from finding them enjoyable in the first place... but this just gives me an even better reason not to hand over my cash.

I'm just really glad that BF 2142 turned out to be a complete pile of crap in the end and Quake Wars/UT2k7 are happily making themselves ready to destroy any reason for anyone to play it.

I'll play Devil's Advocate here...

I played the beta for BF2142 and I loved it, I reported my bugs some minor, some large. I'm a software tester by profession so it was testing aka playing the game.

I can see the Marcus Nilsson view on the audience of the game. Many businesses follow this 80/20 rule. Where you try to fufill 80% of your market and 20% is just the other.

Now these minor bugs may concern the "hardcore" or 20% of your market share, I can't say it does, can't say it doesn't. The company's primary goal is fufill the needs of the 80%, the "casual gamer".

Marcus Nilsson isn't being a dick, but that's just how the business works. No company would be incredibly successful if they just tried to satisfly the smallest group (supposedly).

Of course, the next game in the series comes out soon.

Does BF2 work?

Doesn't matter! A new one's coming out and people will buy that one! YAY!

Seriously though, I got BF2 free with a pizza I ordered from a promotion with my local Pizza Hut. It wasn't even worth the price of the pizza. The game's a broken mess.

Well there are other companies out there that actually fix problems that their game has or think in advance about problems that might occur but DICE is not one of them.

It does seem to me the people on forums etc who scream the loudest are the most obnoxious players online as well, especially on BF2. Usually a quick perusal of their proudly posted statistics will show obvious jet or helicopter "whoring" and they are screaming about something that nerfs it. Something like non-retarded AA missiles, or slightly more realistic damage on the helicopter.

Dice/EA games absolutely do have their issues, but any legit complaints are quickly drowned out by a cacophony of smacktards screeching like banshees because the number of rockets they can shower unfortunate grunts with has been decreased..

the vocal minority point is actually very legitimate. it's a consumer behavior theory. the most famous example is the New Coke dabacle in the mid-80's. Cokecame out with a new flavor, taste tests showed that the vast majority of people preferred the new taste to both Coke Clasdsic and Pepsi, but a very vocal minority (about 10-12%) felt angered by this and started a high profile campaign against the new formula that eventually led to Coca-Cola Classic coming back and the new formula being called Coke II before disappearing altogether.

i'm not saying that this thinking is what's going on ith DICE and the Battlefield series, just that it's something companies always have in the back of their mind as these complaints come in.

"Silence in gaming forums, as in death, does not indicate satisfaction."

I love that.

Well said Florian. I'm a big BF fan from the Vietnam days and let me tell you. After playing the 2142 beta I was super disapointed how little they produced differently from BF2. It's basically the same game but RESKINED!

He shouldn't have said that, he just himself in the foot and the franchise with it.

EA cares about you right up to the point where cash register closes.

After that you're on your own.

I hate EA just as much as the next guy. And BF is a buggy piece of crap. But that aside, I entirely agree with assessment of a vocal minority.

I've worked in the MMO industry for about 7 years now, and you'll notice a trend of companies taking away official forums in lieue of fansites running boards instead.

The issue comes to where the feedback comes from. The official boards typically tend to have a lot of garbage. Tons of garbage in fact, that are hard to sift through for good feedback. The fansite forums tend to be much more rationale, have good feedback, and tend to be way more mature.

So the way I see it, the feedback is dependant on where it's coming from. It's hard to get a nugget of good feedback from an official forum when you have asshats claiming how bad a company is or telling the devs to eat shit, etc. (which does happen).

I didn't take what he is saying as they don't listen to constructive criticism. But I have seen the vocal minority/silent majority in action time after time at other companies.

what an asshole. Guess that's what a slap in the face translates to in bussiness talk.

"They are the guys who ponied up the money, got bored a week later and aren't likely to come up."

I'm among that group, for the exact reason outlined in the main post.

What is wrong with Battlefield 2 on the PC when you play it online? I haven't had any trouble with it that I know of. I love playing it. I tried going back to play Vietnam with my brother this past weekend and it wasn't near as much fun for me.

Florien, you're a dumbass. Pandering to the vocal minority always equals death in creative mediums.

50 years ago, comics were mainstream, sold in major media outlets around the country. 30 years of pandering later, they're forever mired in the ghetto of nerd stores staffed by a population that mostly smells like feet.

The most successful companies learn to manipulate their vocal minority: Don't let them have a real voice or they'll shit all over you, but do let them have some kind of heavily-moderated public discussion area. Don't develop features based on their feedback, but do take broad reoccurring complaints into account during development. Manipulate them with gameplay videos, but don't ever ever ever let them play an unpolished, unfinished build.

Behold, the Blizzard strategy.

Oh noes, Dice doesn't care for the whiners on their board. I think it's true that the majority of the users like the game as it is. You won't ever satisfy every user and the internets somehow lead to wrong assumptions. Take the defect XBox360s... Everytime a new demo is released someone posts "my xbox is broken. Fuck your demo!". I bravo DICE for not following every whiners advise how they should fix their very successful game.

I disagree florian. The vocal minority does not enguage in any constructive feedback. Only mindless fucktard trolling.

iheartjoo has it right!

The thing is, in the case of BF2, the vocal minority aren't really talking about minor problems. You've gto allies tagged as enemies, a completely ineffectual server browser (that didn't even sort by ping, lest we forget) and a client that had a nasty habit of crashing on a map change.

Sure, weapon balance, class balance and the like are all to do with the hardcore getting too into the game and the resulting whining on that can largely be ignored. But when core parts of the experience (such as logging on) are failing, you really shouldn't write off the complaints as non-events.

I'll be interested to see how well BF2142 does after the BF2 debacle. Will players (casual or otherwise) be interested in making the switch having coped with or accepted the issues with its predecessor? I know I won't; and this comes from someone who's spent a vast chunk of the last twelve months gaming time in BF2, and owns two of the three expansions.

I think DICE has some sort of Valve complex. I own BF1942, BF2 and BF2:SF. The only one of these I consistently played for a long period of time was BF1942. The latter two were gigantic loads of horsepiss. They lasted all of about 2 months on my hdd. Sorry guys but both versions of CS still find a home on my PC, perhaps because Valve is Valve and you are not.

Saddly they don't care about the minority because the majority are the ones that pays the mutimillions. They are the ones who don't bother with a forum account.

It is the few that are never heard. The few that offer ideas and features that would be amazing. Even now, EA's Madden series has several critical flaws that do not make it akin to it's reality brother. Fans have bitched and commented, but EA doesn't care. And apparently now Dice doesn't

Upon seeing what Dice has to say, 2142 really doesn't look very appealing. Am I petty enough to not buy a game on what the publisher has said and commented on? You bet I am.

iheartjoo: You don't think that the marginalization of comics has anything to do with the Comics Code limiting the medium as an artform?

I mean, because that's generally accepted as to why Capes account for 90% of the comic market.

You know what, fuck vocal majority, THE GAME DOESN'T FUCKING WORK RIGHT. Does that mean it doens't work, no. What it means is, is that its a buggy piece of crap that i'm sorry i wasted my money on. The idea of it is wonderful, too bad its been out for how long now...? and its still not finished!

To game developers: You CANNOT release this stuff before its done. A car company wouldn't release a car that only has half its engine, its just not done, and you shouldn't do it either.

WOOHOO soap box!!!

I was not a player of the older Battlefield titles. I only jumped into the pool with Battlefield 2. It's a wonderful game, when it works. However, in my experience that was very rare. I can't really name a single session with the game that didn't have some horrid experience behind it. So, even though I think 2142 looks incredible and I love the idea its based upon. I'm speaking with my wallet. I'm not buying anything from DICE again.

EA/Dice doesn't understand that its the little things that make the goddamn game. Its the little things that determine whether you win or lose. Its the little things that add up to a fun experience or a mediocre experience. Its the little things that you show to your friends to get them to buy the game so they enjoy them as well.

What EA/Dice will learn, probably the hard way, is that if we find a Development studio that does all the little things right and caters to the largest demographic in the process, we'll all flock to that game and leave them to the dogs.

DICE must love me. I paid full price for the game, played it for a week until I got tired of the bugs. I put the game on my shelf and never bothered them with any complaints.

Too bad for them it only works that way once.

whether it's game, dining, shopping, whatever it is, it's the little things that can make everyday special...

quality services are what people want...not quantity...

if companies do more to keep their customers happy, then they'll keep coming back...

why don't they see that instead of constantly pissing people off?

I suppose by 'minor problems' he means occasionally getting a 'You teamkilled XXXX' message, even though the other guy did'nt die and you're on the other end of the map.

Or maybe he means when you spawn into the game and sometimes, your rank and weapons have been completely stripped, forcing you to restart the game - and even that does not always fix it.

Or maybe he meant tying the authentication server to the Gamespy login servers, so that people who just want to PLAY, even SP, are forced to wait hours while you perform maintenance on an overloaded box?

'The company's primary goal is fufill the needs of the 80%, the "casual gamer".'

There are NO casual BF2 players. At least 90% of players have over 100 hours in - and if you don't believe me, check the stats - its all there in black and white.

Now, BF2142 may look good, but all of us know its a piece of shit in nice clothing - selling us improvements to the core engine that SHOULD have been included with a patch - including collision detection fixes - basically a glorified mod.

Yeah, I'm disillusioned. Bring on Quake Wars.

I forgot to add - RPG's usually fly right through any car moving at high speed that is within 20 meters of you. I suppose this is also a 'minor issue'.

The collision meshes are so fucked up a tank can lose half health from driving up a small incline.

I digress - I would love to, literally, slap this man in the face. What a pompous ass. He just convinced me to not bother with 2142.

'the vocal minority point is actually very legitimate. it's a consumer behavior theory. the most famous example is the New Coke dabacle in the mid-80's. Cokecame out with a new flavor, taste tests showed that the vast majority of people preferred the new taste to both Coke Clasdsic and Pepsi, but a very vocal minority (about 10-12%) felt angered by this and started a high profile campaign against the new formula that eventually led to Coca-Cola Classic coming back and the new formula being called Coke II before disappearing altogether.'

This is total BS. The executive who came up with 'New Coke' likely made this narrative to explain why they did not lose their job. Could you explain the 'high profile' campaign by consumers - did they advertise?

I think, with New Coke, you could chalk it up to people not liking change. They stick with what they know.

I actually agree with DICE here. Forums are always full of whiners. There are legitimate concerns amongst all the screaming, of course, but you really need a thick skin to sort through all the noise.

It's just a fact that satisfied people tend to be silent. If you get any positive feedback, it's likely there's a lot more folks who just didn't bother to voice their opinion. Complaining, on the other hand, comes easy.

Developers cannot ignore their hardcore audience, but they do understand that it is indeed a vocal minority. Most of their customers do not hang out at forums.

This just in general, I don't know anything of BF2's problems. I don't have any problems with my 360's BF2:MC.

Vocal minority? It sure didn't seem that way when the game was released with the oh so loveable dolphin diving, unbalanced characters, unbalanced vehicles, bugs, exploits, etc. What, they're up to the 4th patch and you still end up killing your own teammates because of the red/blue bug and more and more people are exploiting the bug of being able to go inside the floors/walls of buildings where you can't see them but they can sure as hell shoot you.

I tried 2142 and it was a joke. Just a total joke. Not a single nice thing I can say about it. Its a huge step backwards for the BF series. If I was Lars or some of the other big decision makers at Dice... I would be getting my resume ready.

They don't listen and dont care. Send the message to make them care by not buying 2142.

Wow, just as they think that the community is a minority so does EA who has bought them out right (even though they tried to fight against it). To me I all that irony...

This is interesting, first certain member(s) of Dice believe that those who even know about the BF2 forum are a minority. Next they were bought outright be EA, even though they fought against it. So, who's the minority now? If that's not ironic...

I've played the BF 2142 demo. It isn't half bad, asside from the fact that i can't seem to kill anyone even with 4 hits from a rocket launcher (but i think it's just my PC). There are plenty of things that could have been fixed, like having the controls easily accesible instead of all the way accross the keyboard, or cutting some of the lagg so I can actually get out of the freaking Titan when it explodes. The thing i hate most is when your destroying the reactor and the enemy can run out from behind the energy barrier, make a kill, and run back behind it so you can't kill them. The rockets also need ALOT of improvement.

Like I said, there are plenty of things to fix or improve upon, but the only way it has a chance of getting fixed is if people message Dice and/or EA about the things they could make better. If they don't fix it? Oh well! Play the games the way they are or don't buy them. Simple as that.