Okay. Wow.

I just want to watch it to get angry. D: I'm sure it's informative, but I wonder if it shows the other side of the video game argument, or if it focuses solely on violent video games.. when they have a rating system in place to help parents distinguish violent or not - seriously, I've heard about some mom buying GTA San Andreas for their seven year old kid, then returning it, saying she didn't realise it was so violent. It has an M label on it - did she not read it? Hell, it even says what the M is for.

Sigh.

But if they're going to attack video games, they can attack movies, tv, and whatever other media you want. If they show both sides of the coin, then I'm fine with it.

I don't know, that's just me.

Seriously, guys. Mortal Kombat? That game series hasn't been relevant since like, the Marilyn Manson days.

First of all, most popular media? Half of America plays video games? Bull****! Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo only *wish* they could sell that many.

Secondly, last I checked, the 9/11 hijackers may have practiced with Flight Sim, but all 4 pilots went to PILOT SCHOOL. Imagine that.

Other inaccuracies I'm too pissed off to remember. Maybe later.

If only America adopted the UK's policy on rating games, this film might have never seen the light of day.
Give games the same ratings as films or allow AO games to be sold in normal stores. This would allow publishers could rate thier games correctly. Does anyone here really think the M rating for Manhunt was right? Of course not. However Rockstar/taketwo didn't have the choice as if they rated it AO they wouldn't have been able to sell it games shops.

I am so dense. It took me until the very end of the clip to realize the movie was called Moral Kombat. I was waiting for clips of MK being used to illustrate game violence, so I could say something like Hambriq.

It looks interesting enough. I doubt it would sway me, but it would be worth an hour.

"The documentary appears to have very high production values and looks to be a must-watch for those interested in the topic of violence in games."

Thanks for giving it the benefit of a doubt with credibility instead of bashing it - who knows? Maybe something like this actually has some validity to it.

I'm interested in seeing it.

ODDWORLD? they have a clip of abe getting zapped in a movie about violence in videogames? thats a bit of a stretch...

as far as everything else - i have absolutely NO problem with the rating system of videogames - in fact, i applaud it - anyone who doesnt realize that games like gta or saints row (both of which i own, btw) arent necessarilly good for young children with developing minds to play has issues of their own (whether it be sheer ignorance or just pure denial)

kids are VERY impressionable - its not a fault of theirs - its just human nature - a child is a product of his/her surroundings - theres no denying that

im not saying people should lock their kids away in a closet and not teach them about the "bad things" in life (that would be detrimental as well) - but i definitely think there are a LOT of games that kids shouldnt be exposed to until theyve reached a certain age (just like tv/movies they shouldnt watch, music they shouldnt listen to, guns they shouldnt play with, etc)

I hope the movie opens with some scumbag lawyer in his 50's screaming "MORAAAAL KOMBAAAATTTTT!!!!"

Hang on a second! The showed footage of Myst in there! What are they trying to pull here?

Those girlie Columbine shooters had crappy lookin uniforms.

"...people sat down in of an equivalent of this, a flight simulator And learned enough from the flight simulator to fly jets they never touched before into the World Trade Center. What do think happens to nine year old boy when he sits down and plays a first person shooter video game that rewards him for killing cops."

I am all for giving games a movie like rating system. However, I think it's stupid to compare kids and terrorist as if they are the same group.

I was eight when I played Doom for the first time. Ever sense then, I have been playing all kinds of violent games. But, I have no history of violence. If by their logic, violent games are a blanket effect for a violent life. However that would not explain why I don't have a violent past. In addition, as the clip said "...violence has always been with us." It always will, and the reason why is because they are good people and there are bad people in this world. If someone kills a cop, it would seem like a no brainier to convict the killer not the video game industry.

I would like to know what these people are basing their theories on. A theory should only be recognized as theory if it follows the scientific method. This would require a hypothesis, controlled experiment, and an explanation showing how this process can be duplicated. If these people have not proven their theories in such a manner, then that would discredit them and not make them a worthy source of information for this documentary.

The only thing GTA has ever taught me is that when you die, the hospital takes all of your guns and $150 from your pocket.

How do they think they can get away with using that title? I thought "Mortal Kombat" was a trademark of Midway's.

Wot? Bombat with a K? What a silly bunt.

OH WOW, those experts sure SEEM convincing!

Oh, wait... those middle-aged conservative WASPS aren't actually experts?!

That's quite surprising; it would be a shame if wpeople that didn't know any better took this seriously. You know, the same people that buy their three-year-old children rated M games and would then turn around and blame the video game industry for their own shody parenting.

Hooray for being objective!

I say it purely based upon how society treats the issue and how society, as part of the environment, teaches the children. We say violent products such as video games and movies causes children to become violent. However, if you go to the other side of the pacific ocean in Japan, you get games that are far more violent and sexist than the United States. And if you compare crime per density of area, it's alarming how the Japanese as it so low.

It is because the Japanese have "culture". The US as a whole, we lack a unified culture here.

i like how they compare terrorist learning to fly to 8 year olds shooting aliens...

all we're doing is teaching children to be terrorist, and alien killing machines, and football players, and assassins, and wizards, and cops, and cop killing thugs, and hunters, and pocket bike racers, and skateboarders, and... alright this is getting old

GTA:SA taught me that the gangsta life kinda blows...

Mafia FTW!

That first opening scene is from Dues Ex 2.

Everything that game has touched has failed.

And yeah, that just screams lack of objectivity.

People, look at this trailer on a point-by-point basis. They have four, maybe five soundbites, and not ONE of them stands up to the least scrutiny.

Let's take a few. I'm paraphrasing... the quotes are just to make it clear that I'm pulling a point from the video.

1 - "In the past, violence has been seen as a vice, rather than a virtue."
No grounds for this claim whatsoever. Every society in the history of civilization has values its warriors over its lay-people. Samurais, Knights, army generals, kids play-fighting since the beginning of time... if anything, we live in perhaps the LEAST violent society in history. This claim is flat-out wrong.

2 - "We didn't want to get into the regulation game; we invited the gaming industry to regulate itself."
Again, nonsensical. The video game industry is regulating itself; it would take some fast talking to claim that software companies, adopting the ESRB ratings VOLUNTARILY, aren't heeding the cautious word of adults.

3 - "We blame video games for teaching people how to fly planes into the World Trade Center."
Blaming video games rather than the CIA? Non-violent video games? Mentioning 9/11 is nothing but shameless sensationalism.

4 - "We'll see Columbine etc. etc"
Again, sensationalism. Why can't we blame the alarmist media for glorifying violence by making every American crisis into a political buzzword?

5 - "We literally enter into a world that's so realistic, we forget that it's a make-believe world."
This isn't true for anyone I know, including 3 to 6-year old children. It's an absurdism equates playing video games with a kind of psychopathic hallucination.

Alarmist is a comedic understatement. If this trailer suggested any kind of cogent argument, I might take an interest in watching the film. Instead, it shows that people who want to regulate our lifestyles can only justify their actions with bizarre misrepresentation of reality.

The problem with this argument is the same problem with all insane, alarmist rhetoric against a new medium. The arguments are totally unobjective, thoughtless, have no historical context, and are always proven wrong years into the future.

Television, supposedly a medium that has been bringing senseless violence and gratuitous sex into the homes and bedrooms of Americans of every age and gender still hasn't caused the downfall of western civilization.

Rock & Roll, ditto.

Movies, ditto.

Books, plays, etc. etc.

Hamlet and Macbeth are terribly bloody pieces of work. If they haven't caused the downfall of western civilization, then clearly they must still be working on it. It takes a while. Be patient.

There are plenty of idiots and assholes all over the planet, video games or no, and I hope that none of the people interviewed believe that Charles Manson wouldn't have done it if he hadn't played Grand Theft Auto Vice City, that Columbine wouldn't have happened if the boys hadn't played Doom.

Clearly the fact that video games are more popular now than they ever have been, and violent video games are the most popular variety, we should by now be seeing some indication of whether or not violent video games cause violence. Are we seeing more violent crime than ever before?

Not really. I don't have time to look up all the statistics everywhere, but crime in New York City, where several of these games are based, is actually down and the people who are commiting violent crimes here are the same people who have been doing them since Pong (largely minorities, overwhelmingly poor) and presumably for the same reasons they've been committing them since the days of Pong, hell, for as long as anyone can remember (lack of education, money, options, support, (mental) health care).

Besides all this other bullshit, we're forgetting that human beings are not simply reactionary beasts that give in to every impulse they have. People make decisions and judgements, that's part of what makes us human, and to claim that little kids are going to run around shooting police because that's what he did in a video game is shameful and embarassing, contrary to nearly anyone's entire life experience. I am astounded that anyone could make that claim out loud and not immediately be embarassed by the sound of their own voice.

Movies like this and the sound bites of the people who contributed... It's all empty, baseless, alarmist claptrap for people who yearn for 'a simpler time' without thinking about the fact that the world has never really been a whole lot simpler, just more insulated, coded, and repressed.

When I was a kid we on occasion played cops and robbers (when it wasn't pac man on our atari - aka when it was sunny out) ... 50% of us didn't turn out to be robbers and 50% of us turn out to be cops.

but really.... when did we stop talking about violence in music and movies?

I was hoping this would be a good documentary, but unfortunately it seems to be more interested in blaming the games industry than constructively addressing the problem.

How many times have I seen "Documentary X" whoring out the very powerful feelings of 9/11... it's disgusting the way 9/11 is abused as a media buzzword to make people upset about whatever idea it is they are trying to sell to you.

Are they claiming that Microsoft Flight Simulator X turns children into terrorists? Should it be banned? Restricted to adults? Weren't the terrorists adults?

What are you trying to say here?

This kind of abstract criticism destroys what could be a focused credible argument on an constructive solution. What we should be talking about is children playing violent games, forget about adults and a society of gaming adults, that is another (debatable) story.

I think most of us here would discourage children from playing violent games, lets focus on that issue and not demonise an entire industry that is clearly loved by a huge portion of adults.

This documentary looks interesting, but I just hope they give view to both sides of the issue, and not demonize it to a point where every gamer in the world cries out in agony at the horrible misrepresentation of the issue at hand.

Now, what I find the most fascinating period about this video is that NO ONE has yet to mention Jack Thompson's appearance in the video in any of the posts prior to mine. Its funny how everyone knows his name, less know his face, even fewer know his voice, and yet hate his guts.

This documentary is completely biased and this asshole has the bloody nerve to connect gaming to the 9/11 attacks. I don't even see any sign that this documentary covers both sides of the argument.

This is a load of crap.

A few things:

- "The Silver Fox" is way too cool a nickname for that turd burglar

- Why is it that anytime the whole "if the rating system was better" bullshit machine starts rolling down the hill, nobody is there to pull the "parents aren't doing their job" handbrake?

- I'm surprised they didn't use footage from Doom or Wolfenstein

"You are who you pretend to be" - what a load! No, we're not... that's why we're playing video games. If I was a fat, three-foot Italian plumber who crushed turtles to deat and threw fire at people, then it'd be another story.

That is sheer, Grade-A bullshit. For one, the terrorists who flew the planes into the trade centre attended flight school countless times. Secondly, how many movies were made before 9/11 that involved airplane hijackings to provide inspiration? Air Force 1, Con Air, Executive Decision just to name a few quickly. I remember seeing Jack THompson saying "My son receives death threats because of the work I am doing, these are the people I am up against". Maybe if you were a caring parents Jack then you would discontinue the work you are doing that is potentally endangering the lives of your children.

"Give games the same ratings as films or allow AO games to be sold in normal stores. This would allow publishers could rate thier games correctly. Does anyone here really think the M rating for Manhunt was right? Of course not. However Rockstar/taketwo didn't have the choice as if they rated it AO they wouldn't have been able to sell it games shops."

The ESRB rating system already pretty closely resembles the MPAA system...

E = G
E10+ = PG
T = PG-13
M = R
AO = NC-17

And NC-17 carries the same stigma as AO. Making them the same system wouldn't change a thing.

Dark-Pen,

I think no one's mentioned Mr. Tampon because his appearance in this kind of documentary is a given. There's no reason to bring him up because we all know who the fuck he is and what he's about.

"You Are Who Pretend To Be"

...Someone please get that person a dictionary.

I can only hope they do show the other side of the arguement and it's not segregated to a three minute bark at the end of each segment that contains "GAMERS disagree with this" and then move on, which in a context of showing people with a phd (which has lost alot of weight since Dr. Phil in my opinion) saying things like Terrorists learned to do 9/11 from vidja gamez therefore kids who play video games will learn what there doing. Yea, because GTA matches Flight Sims in reality one for one. That's why the stringy little dude in GTA can fire a bazooka in a standing position without bracing himself and not even move. Riiight.

Then again, maybe a fair half the film is devoted to a pro-game arguement to counter the anti-game but they just have the anti-game to get people to watch it. Kinda like there's movie trailers that look REALLY good but then turn out to suck.

@Dark-Pen, QUIET! It's dangerous to invoke that name nowadays.

The 9/11 hi-jackers learned in a REAL flight simulator, not on a PC.

The thrill seeker comes from all walks of life... comes from the home... the home where the parents are too busy to... train their children respect.

Some people think newspapers exaggerate juvenile crime, or that it's confined mostly to large cities. Juvenile delinquencies on the rise... thus apparent that something has gone wrong with the environment. Adults create the world children live in.

Juvenile delinquency is always rooted in adult deliquency, and in this process parents play the key role. When children grow up among adults who refuse to recognize anything that is fine and good or worthy of respect.

Thank you MrFuzzypaws, that was niggling at me too.

@ PlayerX: "If I was a fat, three-foot Italian plumber who crushed turtles to deat and threw fire at people, then it'd be another story." brilliant.

Nice one Str1cken, well put.

"...people sat down in of an equivalent of this, a flight simulator And learned enough from the flight simulator to fly jets they never touched before into the World Trade Center. What do think happens to nine year old boy when he sits down and plays a first person shooter video game that rewards him for killing cops."

They had also trained to fly in real planes at American flight training schools. I believe they became qualified pilots which invalidates that statement entirely. This also shows how unresearched the film is, not likely to be, but IS. If a 'killer' comment like that can make it on to the trailer then its indicative of the films content.

Their point was that if a flight simulator can train men to fly airplanes, then a murder simulator trains kids to be cop killers.

It's a ridiculous claim on a number of levels.

I've said this in ever forum where this becomes an issue (video game violence). People are always looking for some underlying issue, a cause, a reason something to blame.

We need to hold people accountable for their own actions, and stop trying to find reasons for their behavior. Video games, caused columbine, a flight simulator (now dubbed a video game) showed terrorist how to fly. Those terrorist used what ever medium that was available to teach them to fly, (as a matter of fact, the places where they learned to fly notified the government of their suspicions - no action though) if they used a book to learn to fly, then would it be the book's fault? how do children get their hands on automatic weapons? maybe guns need to be regulated more closely.

Point is this... people need to be held accountable for their own actions...

I've been playing We (heart) Katamari all week, but strangely have not yet turned into a dung beetle.

Likewise my musical career (Guitar Hero) has not yet taken off - I'm still just as crap on a real guitar.

Wow! When Joe Lieberman fades in and out like that with the music in the background I thought it was Palpatine!!

I like to play violent video games but in my line of work I've also seen young people kill and hurt other people with no real understanding of how their actions have really effected their victims. If baning violent video games could help stop kids like this from taking part in these types of crimes, I think it would be very foolish and selfish to demand to still play a video game that in the end just kind of wastes my time anyway.......sorry to those who see them as more meaningful pursuits.....

First, many of you are missing what might be the light at the end of the tunnel in that video...the woman saying "politically, video games, is a win-win situation..." In other words, she is acknowledging the fact that politicians will eat this issue up as a means of *political* gain, as opposed to some nobler cause.

Second, @ astropod
"If baning violent video games could help stop kids like this from taking part in these types of crimes..."
That is a bit shortsighted I think. If we just eliminate all things that certain people might be offended by or that might "warp" them then we would be losing many freedoms. How about parenting and teaching kids how to cope with life without resorting to violence. There's a novel concept!

@zealousd

sure, the esrb ratings system resembles the mpaa system - but i dont think thats the point that was trying to be made (at least, i dont think it was)

at any rate - if you put the SAME ratings system, a parent would be able to easily distinguish what the ratings meant - at this point, im willing to bet a VAST majority of parents dont even realize those are ratings at all...

now, if those same parents saw a "G" or a "PG-13" or a "R" rating on a game, THAT would hit a little closer to home - then they have some sort of frame of reference - basically, you have to make things as completely mindless as you can for the american public to even begin to pick up on it...

To the comment about the 9 year old kid playing a first person shooter, I will respond like this:

When you use a fucking flight simulator, you INTEND to learn how to fly. When you play GTA, you DO NOT INTEND to learn how to kill cops, you intend to play a game that allows you to have total freedom, something our world doesn't allow because of laws and moral considerations, etc. Nobody who plays GTA thinks that killing a cop in the game and killing a cop IRL carry the same rewards/consequences.

As for the whole rating issue:

Parents, take resposibility. That's all there is to it and it's been said before.

I'm sure that scum Bill O'Reilly will have some quotes in this. Him and the rest of them should just make their own game called "Real Life." You get up and play by society's rules. They'll give that to 9 year olds and they'll become more violent and aggressive than ever once they see whats REALLY in store for them after their childhood.

Next we'll be hearing about how some idiot played Railroad Tycoon then drove a train into a bank to steal enough money to make the world's second-biggest replica of Kaiser Wilhelm's monacle.

We ought to figure out who's producing this movie, and who's paying them to do that; then we'll see which cow this B.S. is oozing from.

Well, that was pretentious.

Documentaries with clear bias like this one amuse me. By glamorizing and glorifying violence, how are they not equally part of the alleged problem?

They also focus on nothing but the negative. Conveniently ignoring the truth that the top selling video games involve no violence at all. The Sims, Madden, RollerCoaster Tycoon, Super Mario Bros., the list goes on.

I do not know what Halpin's intent behind this trailer is. But if the goal is to promote an even-handed, balanced documentary, it fails on all counts.

There was some decent people on there that had a reasonable response. There was a couple of people that made you go "...".

Ya know, the "Silver Fox" always talks about the game rewarding you for killing cops, and that translates to real life. But until I have a score bar sitting above my head, I can't understand how that concept would ever carry over to my everyday life.