Every time I see the words jingoism or jingoistic I am pleased.

It's one thing when China's state-controlled media spouts this kind of rubbish, but when it starts cropping up in the supposedly free-thinking Internets it's a bit frightening. Makes you wonder just who's behind the unnamed company that put this out...

@zebber: By Jingo! I thought I was the only one!

*inserts monocle*
...
Over my eye.

i know this is off topic, but i have seen you guys post up the new gameplay vids of killzone 2. They're worth a gander

heres a link

[www.gamersyde.com]

Meh, whatever. The Tibetans that are rioting are jerks that deserve as much bad publicity as possible. Especially with the western media glorifying their actions.

Where I come from, killing women and children isn't "peaceful protest".

@giant_chibi: *haven't

@Demaar: I hope you're joking, else it implies a frightening ignorance of reality, or at least incredible naivete. Head over to Google News sometime and search on "Tibetan protest" and other similar things. Hundreds of different news sources say the same thing... except for the Chinese ones.

Y'know, the ones overseen by the government that is ruthlessly cracking down on the supposedly violent protests.

Funny that.

@freakout:

Took the words right out of my mouth.

@Demaar: Now now, let's not over state the point. No, the demonstrations were not all peaceful. They burned and looted but they didn't quite go around killing women and children.

That said though, the current line of protests being backed by a younger generation of Tibetans are, imo, absurd. The only thing more is the international sympathy. Being angry at the Chinese surpression and violence is fine. But saying "yes, Tibet should be it's own country" or "yes, this is what the Dalai Lama wants" are also signs of ignorance. If you compare the American hold on Hawaii or the British hold on Scotland or the Welsh, China has more right to claim Tibet as part of it as a political entity than both of the former two. That and what the Dalai Lama wanted was the autonomy Tibet had over it's own area before the current regime imposed heavier control over it, not complete independence. China's refusal to meet with him on even those terms is certainly ground for disappointment and anger, but let's not mix up facts here.

@Demaar: Seconded, your ignorance scares me. The history behind this "riot" is much longer than the Chinese would like us to know. culture isn't so weak that a nation decides to suddenly to go against its values. Simply put, years of suppression tends to cause problems.

Yep, American media sure is reliable. The fact that there are shows like the Daily Show and Colbert Report taking the piss out of them 4 times a week says more than I could bother to.

@freakout: While true the Chinese government is unpopular and is the target of a lot of resentment, don't necessarily mistake that opposition for a necessarily enlightened world view about things like Tibet. Tibet and foreigner bashing is a genuinely popular philosophy in China. Nationalistic fervor there is not "faked" (you'll see during the Olympics, this is not a tinpot operation like North Korea).

Simply look at the xenophobic shit that comes out of a purportedly free society like the U.S. It gets even worse at times in Europe.

@Demaar: Its not just american media is it?

Its basically the whole world except China's media.

Yes, what's happening now can be found in more than American media. What's interesting is that as soon as the West found about this incident, the Chinese quickly took steps to counter the truth, such as creating tons of fake "truth" blogs to condemn Western "lies" and to use existing blogs, owned by Chinese people, to do the same. Also, a lot of Tibetan "riots" have been targeting mainly businesses, which have been set up with the aid of China as part of a cultural crusade against Tibet.

China never took the time to sit down and enter into a real dialogue with Dalai Lama and have used forced for more than 50 years.For example, Tibet tried to address China's "cultural genecide" and in 2006, Tibet raised objections again.

One interesting thing about China is that not only do they use force, but at the same time, they take steps to slowly disintegrate a culture by sending large number of people to settle there.

Show me a country where the media isn't biased towards some point of view or the other. I'm not taking any sides here, but it annoys me when someone tries to use a great cultural event to push their agenda.

@Tear: One interesting thing about China is that not only do they use force, but at the same time, they take steps to slowly disintegrate a culture by sending large number of people to settle there.

You mean like what America did to the Native Americans, Japan did to the Ainu in Hokkaido, Israel and Palestine, and Europe and half the world? I'm not defending China's actions but lets take things into perspective here people. What China did/is doing is not unique. It is very hard to justify why Tibet should not be part of China without asking why the heck should Hawaii be part of the United States considering the history behind that annexation as well.

@Demaar: You clearly understimate the Chinese in terms of propaganda. If you believe them it's your fault but please don't even help them by spreading this nonsense.

I have a few Vietnamese friends who could tell you a lot about communist propaganda and especially China.... and no I am not American.

Fuck the middle east,we should be fighting in China and North Korea,before its to late.

The Chinese government simply made a mistake this time. Tibetans, mostly monks and nuns, were peacefully marching to commemorate the 49th anniversary of Tibetan National Uprising. Since this public march was obviously not cool with China, China sent an army in armor to "hot spots" around the China, of course mostly in Tibet, hoping to stop the demonstration through intimidation and threatening force. As expected, assuming knowledge of the culture, of course the Tibetans refused to stop. Combine this with escalating use of force, regular Tibetans joining the protest, Chinese gov't being pressured to quell the movement before it draws more attention (think Olympics), etc. etc. i.e. a recipe for disaster. People get shot, people riot, fire, shooting, raiding businesses, clashes between citizens, killing on both sides.

Didn't anyone see this coming?

When innocent unarmed civilians lose they're lives to weapons of WAR while attending a rally,its ALOT more than a mistake my friend,especially when its about what?the thousandth time.

@SlowDeath420:
Peace agreements have already been signed by North Korea, they've let UN inspectors confirm the shutting down of Nuclear installations. They're not really much of a threat anymore.

@Demaar: To you and me,but the millions of people in the political internment camps that are the size of American cities might disagree with you,but heh us north americans are safe so who cares if theres no money to be made in process,right?

@Tear:
Sometimes cultural genocide just happens. Look at Japan during WWII. The US pretty much obliterated what was left of their culture and made them what they are today.

I can't exactly speak for every Japanese person, but I reckon they're happier not having a crazy arse Emperor dragging them into wars they don't want.

@Demaar: You couldn't be more wrong.

@Demaar: Have you read much scholarship on post-war Japan? The US preserved (against the wishes of many, many people) the emperor system; a lot of what is going on RIGHT NOW is a throwback to 1930s and 19th century culture. Not much of an obliteration, and certainly not cultural genocide. Much of what '[makes] them what they are today' - and what fueled the 'economic miracle' - was in place BEFORE the US occupation. And plenty of citizens were more than happy to participate in the events that led up to the 2nd Sino-Japanese War & the Pacific war.

While I find the Western uproar a little tiresome in light of other, equally as concerning attempts at reigning in a non-Han population that get next to no press (e.g., Xinjiang), there are more than enough examples of violent crackdowns and interesting 'control' methods inflicted on the dominant Han population to prove that it's not just pesky Tibetan protesters who get the short end of the stick.

Ultra-nationalism breeds bad things in any country.

@Demaar: Not exactly true. The Japanese themselves can be said to borrow much of their culture from China. During the course of the war, alot of "culture" was either invented to given extra significance as well such as the Sakura flowers, and sumo wrestling (what are you gonna do if baseball is illegal now?) Lastly, to what extent Hirohito was even partially responsible for dragging Japan into the war is questionable. The emperor has a history of being symbolic in the Japanese government. Just because the war time government told the public the emperor was divine (not a god though) doesn't mean he held real power.

How China got the Olympics is past me.

@Demaar

The war was fought and the US won... and Japan paid a price but it is far from the truth that Japans culture was "obliterated"

We beat them, we never broke them - I give them respect, they got back up - proud bunch they are

"Ultra-nationalism breeds bad things in any country"
Amen, to that!

Well said Maggie:)

@Demaar: I can't fucking believe you just said "Sometimes cultural genocide just happens.". I don't even know where to begin kid, your ignorance makes me sick as shit.

@RTW: amen.

@RTW: That's funny, because your ignorance of history makes me sick as shit. Try picking up a history book, you won't have to look far. 1800's NA.

I'll go one step further, one can argue that the latter half of all Western/Euro-centric history can be traced back to cultural genocide.

Now go sit in the corner and study up.

@RTW: Using the term kid because you don't agree with someone is hardly exemplary now is it.

The truth is NEUTRAL (my caps). The truth is NOT YOUR FRIEND (also my caps but it's dramatic). The truth is the only thing that will set you free (This is true).

No-one ever lies without a reason to lie. Therefore, all lies have an agenda.
Lesson: Reject all liars 'cos they're bullshitting you for one thing or another.

My point: The Chinese government are wankers. Go work it out people.

@Onouris: It isn't but when you have the varing levels aticulate people that you see on the internet its nto supprising. Just learn to be your own editor in this situation.

its a chame the Tibetans don't have the same luxury we do in cases like this.

shame* oh the irony of my previous statement in circumstances like this =)

I find it funny that the average English-speaking internet keyboard warrior refuses to realize that this time, for once, the Tibetans were at least partially at fault for turning violent.

Even Western media sources freely posted images of Han Chinese stores that were destroyed by the mob and mentioned that Han civilians were being killed by Tibetan rioters.

I find it hypocritical for self-proclaimed human right advocates to simply ignore the other side of the story and act like experts on Chinese human rights without having ever been to the country.

Furthermore, nationalism has long been deeply engrained in the Chinese identity after centuries of perceived and real foreign exploitation. (Opium War, Treaty of Shimonoseki, Boxer Rebellion, WW1 German concessions, WW2) It's foolish to think that such xenophobic sentiments require the Chinese government's egging to happen. It's already taken a life of its own and becoming a self-sustaining religion of sorts.

I know plenty of Chinese nationals who would stubbornly defend their nation's actions, but are otherwise completely intelligent people. Reminds me of religious zealots, really.

The fact is that the pro-trade central government is now panicking. Nationalism was supposed to be their way of uniting the people and preventing dissent, but it has grown beyond their control. It has no choice but to play along now or risk another Tiananmen. (And if that happens, the protestors certainly aren't going to be pro-West side...)

If only I had a way to vent my bilious rage :(

Personally.. after 50+ years of repression and military bullying, it's sort of nice to see the Tibetans stand up and do a little random killing and rioting. You can only turn that cheek so many times and have someone slap it before you grab the nearest chair and shove it up their sinus passages.

@GrassJelly: It's not about the fact that it happens, it's about the fact that he puts no effort in caring about it. It's like saying your friends family was murdered, and then you saying "it just happens." That lack of human compassion as if it's part of life. Which I say, people who think shit like that is the norm should be locked up.
Yes, I know it happens, and I'm saying it shouldn't have happened and shouldn't BE happening. Human beings, the only known organisms to rightfully make themselves extinct.

@PratzStrike: Repression my ***! You act as if Tibet was some sort of democratic society before China invaded, when in fact it's a feudal slave society ruled by the aristocrats who regularly tortured the serfs, who are mostly illiterate and represent over 90% of the Tibetan society. The Dalai Lama and the Tibetan flag were actually installed by the Manchu Dynasty, and Tibet gained independence illegally via coercion with the British while China was at civil war.

Most Tibetans living in China does not support these minority of thugs. They planned racist pogroms and murders, and were punished accordingly. I'm sick of Westerners automatically blaming the Chinese government on anything, entirely because China chose not to kowtow to the West's demands. And I'm sick of the using the human rights excuse to bash China, considering that the US turns a blind eye to it's own human rights atrocities in Guantanamo Bay as well as supporting corrupt Middle-Eastern regimes like Saudi Arabia where women and dissidents has no rights at all.

@astrixzero: With that flag in your comment I can't take anything you say seriously.

@Tear: [www.anti-cnn.com]

The Western media are a bunch of crooks. And just because the Chinese media is government controlled (a fact known to the majority of Chinese), does not grant the Western media a free pass on posting speculations as fact, especially when masquerading pictures from Nepal and India as "images from the Tibetan riots. You automatically assume that the riots were caused by the Chinese before facts were known, and act as if all Chinese are deluded and brainwashed propagandists while the West as an enlightened holy grail of truth, when it's not. Have you even set foot in China, let alone Tibet? It's people like you (who treats the Tibetan issue as a black-and-white, us-vs-them problem) that makes the Chinese hate the West even more. You expect that we Chinese listen to the views of the West when people like you automatically dismiss their views?

@PratzStrike: So it's ok to be violent and kill as long as you agree with them. You I find more difficult to take seriously with that attitude. And I'm from the PRC, deal with it.

I'm so tired of the Western media and the BS behind it. The only difference between Chinese media and Western is that the West is much better at covering up the truths and are a bit more tasteful when trying to push their opinions and ideas using media.
Doesn't everyone know that Fox is controlled by some certain powerful people, same with BBC, and CBC, I mean if you come and understand Chinese culture you'll have a much better idea of the real situation.
Lastly, the one thing I am afraid of in this country (China) is nationalism because of I hate nationalism in any country. Everything here is magnified because of the population, and how fast everything spreads and changes here..
Back to the point, the pun in the game whether it's intentional or not is still pretty funny to me, and it's funny to a lot of mainlanders as well. Just like all the immigrant jokes, and beyond in GTAIV. Nothing different..

Sorry I forgot, "astrixzero" that flag is just a bit much, a perfect example of how people here a lot of times can't differentiate political discussions and over-zealousness of your own country. And don't get me wrong, I love China as well