The problem isn't gaming, it's the anonymity.

Give someone a voice without a face and they'll usually be rude.

See: any forum or chatroom on the internet ever.

It's just a microcosm of real life, one where a level of anonymity is added.

Otherwise it's no different from real life, where everyone is taught that fags are queer and that they are in fact, fags.

Well. The majority anyway.

Solving it on the internets and LIVE's and other Microsoft sponsored venues (woo advertising) is really no different then trying to solve it in real life, which is nigh impossible, as obviously, even education hasn't helped. Again, with the majority anyway.

I'mma be in my corner wishing for world peace while we wait for people on LIVE to say the word "faggot" for the last time.

All signs point to: No.

Generally it's the few bad that ruin it for the most of us.

I don't think it's something possible to stop. I mean give people near anonymity and ability communicate whatever they want with almost no repercussions and it's just going to create a hostile environment.

In my recent outtings on XBL, it seems to have clean up a little bit, but there's always going to be that person every now and that swears, yells racial comments, etc.

The best the community can do is start setting up as a group and denounce this kind of activity. Too many time we respond in they same way they talk and that just adds fuel to the fire.

It's not something that will just go away, it'll always be with the community, but we can certainly try to decrease the frequency it occurs.

I partially agree that the problem is anonymity. But since gaming is an interactive media, players will try to outdo each other, that's just the nature of gaming - competition.

If you replace gaming with let's say a group of people that watch a movie together in a chatroom, I doubt they're going to to hate on each other.

It's just one of the pros/cons of online gaming. That is why Nintendo doesn't allow people to communicate, instead relying on cutesy, but useless phrases like "Hello there, friend!".

While the problem will never go away, I think by discussing it, we can definitely lower and decrease the bad encounters we all have while trying to enjoy gaming with people online.

@karasu is my homeboy: It is the anonymity. The reason it seems more prevalent in gaming is because gamers tend to participate in forums/chat/IM much more often than other groups. People believe they can say pretty much anything with no repercussions, and for the most part they are correct in that assumption.

What...they get banned? Some intend on the pursuit from the start, but most just make another account as if nothing ever happened. Anonymity is the true culprit here, not gaming. Gaming is the just the venue most traveled by the trolls of the internet.

One console would help.

well fanboys can be quite dangerous when disturbed (see: Yahtzee reviews you) but aside from that i havent meet to much insocial/rude people on the gaming comunity...

...oh wait, XboxLive...

D=

@Figcoinc: Bingo! One of these days I will own my own game server and it will be the greatest thing ever. No intolerance, no jackasses. Just remember everyone, the Ban is mightier than the pen (or in this case their special keyboard thats always in full caps regardless of what happens). Only reason their is a semblance of sanity here in the comments is because of our lord and savior, the Banhammer.

They are e-ballers. I call them xBallers on XBL.
From my GT's bio:

xBallers- people who go on XBL and make hateful statements (racist, homophobic, etc), because they don't have the balls to say the same comments to people's faces. In this way, they "grow balls" on XBL.

Possible reasons - insecure, friend-lacking, no life, think they look cool (esp. in front of friends), self-hating, no self esteem

My kid was playing COD4 the other day and one of the other players was called "HomoKiller."

Where all the "if you're online you're asking for it" posts? Oh well, it's early.

I agree with everyone about the anonymity thing. I have yet to be called anything really offensive while playing online (I own a PS3, if that matters). A matter of fact, last time I played GTA race, me and the guys playing were laughing and joking without any racial slurs or anything. I do hear all of the stories about homophobia and racism and stuff from other people. I believe that if people actually played side-by-side against some of the dudes/chicks that they insulted, I doubt you would hear a peep out of them since not all gamers are scrawny or fat nerds.

I don't think it's a gamer thing at all. Or an internet thing for that matter. Like previously stated, it's the anonymity.

Let's face it, a lot of people are assholes. And when you give them the opportunity to be assholes without consequences, they will always revel in their assholeness.

Only solution to those kinds of things are eliminating assholes in real life, or a machine that allows you to reach into your television or monitor and punch people in the face.

@karasu is my homeboy: I don't think that anyone among us would suggest that gaming is the cause, but I agree that the anonymity is the problem.

It becomes apparent that a significant amount of people are only polite in real life due to the consequences of being rude. Once online, such consequences are few and far between, and the facade is dropped.

It's a shame. I genuinely feel like Xbox Live is crawling with assholes, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's sad that this is the state of things.

What ever happened to the Golden Rule?

I was going to say something else then realized that I would not have been able to write it in a way that gets my point across. My point was that I play with an older crowed of gamers and when we call each other names or say something that could be taken as hurtful people need to realize that we know each other and know the line that we should not cross. But when you go and log on Live or any other online service to find the users almost randomly saying things that they have no right to say it is hard not stoop down to their level to defend yourself or to get back at them. In the end I think the first step to peace in online games is more moderation and the only reason I say this I continue to wonder what would happen to Live if people where randomly watched and banned for saying and doing things that they should not be saying or doing.

Obviously we need more friend codes. =/

There are people who are just jackasses; whether in real life or in game. These people can be catalysts to destructive gaming. If one person starts shouting obsceneties it infringes on other people's happy space (I seriously have no idea how to describe what I'm thinking) and in turn these other people will begin to get upset and at some point may lose their temper and here, we can see the dark side has come full circle.

This is all just speculation, though, I'm a "ninten-fag" (read: don't have 500 dollars for a PS360 that might break anyway [I'm not saying that I hate either console, I'm just really afraid of spending that much money and having it break after warranty]) so I don't get to talk to the people I play online. (Yeah, I prefer it that way except when I'm with friends)

From the blog post:

"How can we constructively address members of our community who use the public and anonymous nature of our forums and comment areas to attack or berate others? Is banning specific commenters or IP addresses the best solution? We can moderate and filter, but is there something meaningful to be gained by allowing such people to publicly have their say? Can we nurture a community that responds to these situations in a useful and instructive way? Can we engage a critical mass of gamers willing to model respectful disagreement and thoughtful discourse?"

They had a lot of terrific things to say (as did Leigh in her columns). I find the questions above the most interesting. It is so difficult to try and meaningfully engage someone who is being blatantly awful. You see that behavior and think that you may get that person to see reason with a thoughtful response. Usually, it goes in one ear and out the other. I sometimes wonder if people like that see the internet as one big video game in which their actions have no real-life consequences.

@Xiedo: My bad, what can WE do. Here at Kotaku? Peons set good examples, mods/editors banham with fair warning.

On XBL, mute, mute and mute some more.

@YesILikeGuys: I find when they play with others it's far more common, especially split screen players with mics. They just want to impress their friends by insulting others. God forbid you say anything back to them. I just don't understand how unoriginal insults and slurs are so funny. Maybe someday I'll be as cool as they are.

The people of Xbox Live is why I'm, tbh, too afraid to even bother with the system when that seems to be the heart of the console. I try to be selective when adding friends even on PSN and find it increasingly difficult to pinpoint what to look for.

It doesn't matter how many ID's you pull out of a thread/topic/article, I've never met the people first hand and never will, and i can't understand why that pushes people to tear into each other.

I feel out of touch with the whole Online thing, which is a large reason why I'm anticipating the implementation of Home. Ripping out the "Do or Die" competitiveness that intense gaming entails more often than not. I hope it will bring Gamers looking for fellow Gamers together in the right way.

These people have never been to a sports event EVER!

We can all get along as soon as everybody agrees that my opinion is the correct one.

:P

@Xiedo: While I enjoy muting people on XBL to end things before they start I think we must understand that while we can mute it only covers up the problem and never really goes about solving anything. Although maybe if the XBL community would say "Hey thats not funny and it only proves the points for people like Jack Thompson" in response to what comes out of peoples moths then perhaps the community would change for the better.

@karasu is my homeboy:
While that is true, I find that gaming communities are often among the worst. The only thing I've usually seen that is nastier are free-for-all type politics forums and message boards.

...Oh, how I miss the Yahoo! message boards!

@karasu is my homeboy: Bingo - another example of John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. The hostility has nothing to do with gaming, you'll see the same thing whether you're discussing politics or sports or religion or the weather.

Gamers ought to be able to respect each other for what they have in common, especially given games are under near-constant assault from some pretty badly-informed people, but to expect much more out of anybody on the internet is a bit much imo.

@Fury-genesis: You hit the nail on the head there. I couldn't agree more.

Without slipping into a rant psychoanalyzing the needs of immature people, I'll just toss this into the fold: A major factor in ethics is the deterrant. Most people refuse to believe or even acknowledge this, because it paints people as selfish, brutish morons, but the fact remains that it is true. (I've even been told, and I absolutely believe, that people are born as ethical egotists). The threat of consequences is often the only thing that will stop a person from acting unethically. I'll pose an example to illustrate my point:

If you were given the opportunity to steal a million dollars; you know that you would never be caught, under any circumstances, and you know that taking the money wouldn't hurt anyone else, would you do it, even if it was stealing? A truly ethical person would say "no," because stealing is against his or her moral code. Most normal people (myself included) would say "yes," because our actions are easily justified.

This same situation occurs all the time in the aforementioned chat rooms/boards/LIVE. People are given an opportunity to (at least to them) entertain themselves, and they know that there will be no real consequences. It's much easier for them to ignore how they can potentially ruin others' fun, or hurt others' self-esteem, because they understand that nothing will happen to them. Thier names are secret, thier faces are hidden, and thier location is safe.

There are only two ways to combat this behavior: adding consequences (eg, bans), or education. Adding consequences is the easier and more attractive approach, because it is easier to understand, but all too often the ban/mute/etc. is unheeded because the punishement isn't severe enough. The only other way is through education...that is, teaching these immature people that what they're doing is, in fact, unethical. Unfortunately, by the time they're spouting off homophobic slurs on LIVE, it's all too evident that the people responsible for delivering this education are sorely lacking in one of thier own, either in the same topic, or just in parenting in general.

Yes, this sort of thing goes on. It has for a long time and it will continue to. There isn't much we can do to combat it. That being said, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't TRY.

I'm a proponent of the addition of consequences because education never fails; consequences are OUR way of rendering an education to these asshats, namely: "That shit doesn't work here." Eventually, they'll get the message; people always do.

I'll close with this: Kotaku is one of the finest places on the internet because of this very reason; the banhammer swings often and justifiably so, telling the fanboys and trolls "That shit ain't welcome," and it works. If moderators and server owners allow douchbags to roam free, how are they any better than the parents that refuse to discipline thier children? They're sending a message that "Do what you want, it doesn't matter."

Only in the most educated enviroment will people turn to a norm that doesn't involve such hate, and until more gamers grow up (both mentally and morally) then this will continue to happen.

If you read that all the way through, thanks. One last comment: that picture? Awwwwwww :)

Speaking of such, remember my friend Gilgamesh from the other day? Well, a pile of fanatic SNK fanboys caught word and have decided to descend upon him on his own board. It gets better by the second, doesn't it?

Time to be honest here, guys. Can you honestly expect society to NOT look down on gamers and the entire gaming industry? Stop and think about it for a second. Every time someone comes out and says that games lead kids to kill, that games lead kids to being antisocial, that games make kids fat, that games warp minds, that games need to be kept out of the hands of children, that certain games just shouldn't be made, etc, etc, etc... what would you expect?

In every other form of entertainment, when people suggest such things, they are met with heavy opposition from the fans. In gaming? The gamers just shrug and say "yeah, you're right" and that's it. When was the last time you heard anyone other than me railing against the assholes in the ESRB? I'm betting it's been a LONG time, if ever. No, gamers will sit there and say "yeah, the ESRB is necessary because games can ruin a kids life and if a parent accidentally let them play a game the ESRB doesn't think they're ready for, they'll be a killer for life." Hell, the creator of God of War, when that 13 year old shot his friend over an entirely unrelated matter whil ethe game happened to be on in the room, what did he say when the report called and asked what he thought? He said parents should watch what games their kids play. Do you know what that translates to to a non-gamer? It translates into "Yes, if people play these games when they are young, them turning into murderers is certainly a very plausible outcome."

If gamers don't wake the hell up, grow some spine, and stop dropping to their knees in front of the ESRB every time some minorly controversial content is put into a game, they will see their hobby raped by powerhungry executives at the ESRB, by busybody anti-intellectual parenting groups that have been fighting entertainment since the beginning of time (and never finding a victory so total and so easy as they've found in the gaming industry), and by companies that want to exude a "family image". And why shouldn't they? The gamers sit back and take it. Every time.

And please, if you're going to respond to this with some inane "if the ESRB wasn't around the government would be censoring games" crap. The government doesn't censor any other form of entertainment, has never been involved in censoring any form of entertainment (in the USA at least), and would face massive opposition if they ever tried. Not from gamers, of course. Gamers don't mind. But Constitutional scholars would go nuts.

I'm getting kind of tired of reading articles about how gaming culture needs to better itself. Sort of reminds me of an article from the sixties I read telling hippies to cut their damn hair.

At any rate it's pointless. No one controls a culture, they kind of just happen all by themselves independent of the conscious control of any one person. It's the reason why there'll always be hippies with long hair, and why no one will ever convince 4chan that Milhouse is a meme.

That kind of politically incorrect obnoxiousness is an integral part of the game culture I think. It's a kind of reaction against our current social climate's attempts to enforce politeness and 'moral decency' and political correctness. GTA is pretty much the most iconic game we have because it represents that reaction.

When someone calls you a faggot on Xbox Live 80 per cent of the time they don't mean anything by it. It's just meant to be funny in an odd, roundabout sort of way; it's like laughing at the prejudices of the previous generation. Okay, so society at large might not get the joke, some people might be offended, but who cares? I think as a general rule everyone needs to stop being offended so easily.

These sort of articles always read like, "Okay, here's what game culture needs to do to become an acceptable part of the larger culture". In most instances though, I don't think gamers want to be a part of mainstream culture . Our reactions to certain Fox news beat ups and Jack Thompson and all those other anti-gaming idiots shouldn't be interpreted as pleas for mass cultural acceptance, but as pleas, or warning or threats, to leave us the hell alone.

But as I said earlier, I can't speak for everyone, or even anyone other than my self.

@Fury-genesis: I agree with the you, its being anonymous that allows it because most of these people are actually spineless bastards.
I think im actually less aggressive and more polite in online games because there`s not much point being aggressive if i cant reach out and give them a fucking good kicking. So i just usually just turn the shit talk around on them and they end up disconnecting after they go apoplectic with rage and spouting 5 minutes of verbal abuse.Its usually the ones that think theyre shit hot and find out they arent.These go crazy if they get owned.Theyre ego takes a real bashing.Its just a game ffs. : )
Sometimes in these situations i just get the image of the angry german kid in my head and i cant get rid of it.

+ Watch video

My question isn't what causes online dickery, but what the online dicks are like in real life. I can't help but wonder how big the contrast in behavior is.

personally i'd like to go back to the days when i was a social outcast for being a gamer. those were good days...

@otakucode: You make a reasonable statement, but I disagree with the part about the US government not censoring entertainment. That's pretty much the entire reason the FCC exists. It's also the reason Howard Stern has been relegated to satellite radio, "live" television is now taped with a delay (we can thank boobgate at the superbowl for that one) and myriad other things I can't be bothered to google at the moment. Perhaps you can make the argument that such things are "public" displays, whereas games are "private," but if the US government decides that something is profane, it will act. I mean, hell, look at what it did to James Joyce.

@GregoriusH: "When someone calls you a faggot on Xbox Live 80 per cent of the time they don't mean anything by it. It's just meant to be funny in an odd, roundabout sort of way; it's like laughing at the prejudices of the previous generation."

No. It's *exacerbating* the prejudices of the previous generation. You are not going to convince me that "faggot" is being used in some ironic, anti-establishment sort of way. It is an ugly word, a hateful word, and no amount of rationalization is going to change that.

So... this isn't actually about gaming, but more about people misbehaving on discussion forums?

First of all, to convince a parent that gaming are "good for our souls", you need to makes things clear: Games are not like gaming forums (though some of them looks exactly like one, specially those with live chat).

Second: Usually, prejudice, cussing, and misbehaving on games and forums are usually done because of anonymity and lack of maturity by the people using the service.

So, it's not really that kids will become devils after visiting some forums... it's spoiled brats that needs more education at home.
Moderators on forums must keep a close look at what's happening and expel some people if needed.

Like they do around here, in blogs like Kotaku and Gizmodo.

Just like when you're on a meeting, a movie theater or some public space... if someone is causing trouble, there should be people monitoring and if needed, expelling troublemakers.

And if there are no good monitors to keep it a clean and calm space, just avoid those places or start complaining to the owners.

Because I think it's nice and all to ask people to have a better behavior on public spaces... but lets face it: There will always be people trying to create problems, trolling, being fanboys, cussing and doing stuff like that. Specially on games.

Heh. I had to stop reading this post in the middle to go break up a screaming fight between my cats.

Another vote for John Gabriel's GIFT from me, though there must be something more than just as large a helping of anonymity as they would like making it abnormally bad in the gaming community. Are they, for that matter, even part of the gaming community? I mean, does anyone actually know someone who is like that?

@GregoriusH: Really? 80% of the time? 100% of the time I've heard it is because they are winding someone else up or cannot form any other cohesive phrases. Either way they are spouting off with the specific intent to offend, not as part of their comedy routine. If you would be so kind as to stop excusing the behavior, that would be delightful.

@GregoriusH: Oh please. It's not some kind of commentary on modern society. It's idiots being hate-filled racists, sexists, and whatever other kind of -ists you can think of.

While I'm sure alot of people wish it would just "Go away", it won't, and shouldn't. The argument isn't freedom of speech, it's just who people are.

Sure, you can try to just block the intolerant out, but then you get the people who are over sensitive about issues start pushing for their right to
not be offended. It ends up snowballing until your entering 12-digit numbers to play with friends with no voice support (Insert wavy guy here).

Homosexual/Racial insults/stereotypes exists... it just does. You don't have to "Toughen up", but try to accept it exists, and move to another game or start making friends and only play with them... or ignore it all together.

Don't say "We're not interested in being scolds or behavior police" followed by "but", because that ends up being the label put on such people, and the circle of intolerance continues..

meow.

@Cogito:

Exactly. It's about deterrent, or the lack of, when online. The few consequences available, such as a ban, in many cases really aren't severe enough to discourage such behavior either.

And it is in no way a gamer culture specific problem. And I really do resent the notion that it is. A quick visit to the any politics or sports forum will quickly reveal the exact same behavior. In fact, just a few minutes ago I had to stop reading the comments section on an article on espn.com, because the idiocy was giving me a headache (Lakers fans, sheesh).

It is a very common phenomenon, and it will never go away. It will always be a constant battle that no matter how zealously waged, can never be won. The best we can hope for are places like Kotaku, where there is a concerted effort to snuff it out.

The only way it will ever stop is if the people change, and deterrent is no longer necessary to keep people acting like halfway decent human beings. ...and the world becomes a glorious utopia.

As for Xbox live, just mute everybody who's not on your friends list. In some team games it's not nice, but I don't care, people don't talk about the game most of the time.
...or you could just accept that idiotic 12 year olds are just a fact of XBL and have a little fun with it.

I think the majority of gamers REEEALLY dislike people who can be categorized as "fanboy/girls".

The fanboy/girls are usually very insecure about themselves so they identify with a product; and take any focus not positive towards it as a deeply personal insult.

It also bugs me when people think its only the gaming community doing this when its all over the internet comunity. From anime to soap boards, as long as anonymity exist on the internet, your going to get these type of people.