I wonder how long who ever reported this took to persuade the Daily Mail big cheeses (I like to think of them as a Gouda and a strong Cheddar) that the game was the next big thing from the devil

Err, the stabbing thing is true. Unless you want to take it up with the BBC?

[news.bbc.co.uk]

From reading the review, sounds like the reviewer really liked the game, and thought it was awesome, but put disparaging remarks in to get it past the editors.

Plus, Nikos? Really?

I played this game yesterday, and in no way does it deserve the rating it has now. I mean it's great, but I would give it a 95 max rating. It's just the hype that made it have such high ratings.

Also, the Daily Mail is bogus. They just don't want a billion gamers sending them hatemail, but they don't want a billion conservative mothers sending them hatemail also.

@nenet: That's what I thought. Bunch of backhanded compliments. But at least GTA's getting this kind of recognition, which it totally deserves. The game is a work of art.

Yeah, wtf's Nikos's all about..

Even plain ordinary English rules says that's wrong..

Even if it were Nikos, it'd be Nikos', not Nikos's!
Geeze, Mail, get a proof reader!

I don't believe it the daily mail was leading the campaign at one point to get GTA banned.

@Jayenkai:

No, it would be Nikos's. It would only be Nikos' if the inner turmoil belonged to several people called Niko.

@phicaluk: Sorry, I'm sticking to my guns on this one!!
The apostrophe used is meant to illustrate ownership. As in "Mike's Pen". Here they're using the incorrect name "Nikos" and adding the 's on the end to show ownership of his own inner turmoil.. "Nikos's inner turmoil"
However, in standard English, a name ending with an s doesn't get another s added on.. eg "James' Pen", "James' inner turmoil", "Nikos' inner turmoil"

It's certainly a step in the right direction, if this makes at least a few people overthink their bad opinion, which they probably had if they saw something about it on TV, then it already reached at least something.

I love the fact I get the feeling the character has a sense of morality. Although I noticed it more in the beginning than I am now (50%) it was a nice touch. The little short saying like, "I don't want to be your hitman." and "the less people I have to kill, the better."

@Jayenkai: The man is right.

Yeah, the Mail is a racist paper that either goes on about the death of diana, or how much money immigrants get. I seem to remember them calling Halo 3 "ultra violent"

But it's good to see the game is getting some good press that'll go out to a lot of people. Then again, the only way this would affect game sales is that mothers get persuaded to buy their underage kids this game.

@Jayenkai: It's a style question. Adding the extra s isn't wrong, but neither is not adding it.

I have a name that ends with an "s" and I prefer an extra s be added when necessary. Otherwise the pronunciation becomes, IMHO, stilted/awkward, and I don't think an exception should have been made in the first place. I see no reason to break the rules just because "s's" somehow *offends* people.

On topic: nice to see reactionary news outlets being slightly less reactionary.

I never liked the previous GTA games and their over-the-top emphasis on crime and violence, but I'm enjoying GTA IV a lot. It definitely feels a lot more subtle, nuanced and mature (as in real mature, not moar-blood-and-boobs "mature") than previous entries. For the first time I feel like I'm playing a great crime story, rather than a mindless exercise in criminality.

@Sorwah: Yeah, his qualms do seem to diminish over time. But then again, that's actually realistic. Once you start killing people, it becomes old hat pretty quickly.

Or so I've been told.

*whistles innocently*

Just to get in on the tangent apostrophe-after-s debate, I initiated a major argument with co-workers the other day, who wouldn't even admit that either was accepted in modern English.

Plenty of "proof" for either argument, this is one question that even the English language experts are split over. Being called Ross, I know the correct answer - "Ross's" is just GRAMMATICAL PAIN. No S ftw and all that.

Oh yeah and the Daily Mail. That really is surprising. I agree they must have shockingly employed a games journalist who actually played the game!

Buy this sick filth!

I am truly surprised at the Daily Mail - this has two of its greatest enemies in it.

VIdeogame violence and *say it quietly* S&M sex

I don't know if I can believe it, maybe they got a Daily Mail censored version!

On general principal, I skip all of the cutscenes and kill people whenever there's a choice not to.

I just assumed that that's how everyone did it.

Awesome little article, now where is an article saying GTA IV is one of the best social commentaries on America in years.

R* definitely has a sense of humor, and it shows... on the radio, TV, billboards, everywhere.

"...falsely says someone was stabbed at the midnight launch."

[news.bbc.co.uk]

[www.gamespot.com]

[and others]

@MantisDragon: Yeah I know, of course it is exaggerated but at some level it is true, which is just plain scary.

@Superstar90: Dude your way too generous with your scoring, it definitely ahould not have got more than 94.8
Point made?

Has it gotten any other reviews? It has totally flown under my radar.

Am I the only one who found GTA:IV rather dissapointing?

I'll admit it's a good game but I dont think it deserves the amount of praise it's getting.

Moral Compass? I wonder how long he played the game before writing this review.

@Leopard89:

Yes, you are.
Go out, blow up a petrol station or stab some hookers like the rest of us. =)

The only thing criminal about GTAIV is the lack of mid-mission saves. At the very least don't make me drive 5 minutes before getting to the action, then spend another few minutes riding up and down a lift. Start me at the action. I don't understand any review that gives this above an 8.5 -- which means I can't figure out where most of them are coming from (note: I've only completed 35% of the game).

@HAGE: I've played it for 40+ hours and I have to agree with the original comment.

Nearly everyone is addicted to some illegal substance and all of them admit they're killing themselves with it -- let alone showing the most horrible side effects of their use. I've made several IMs to a fried that this game seems to be the biggest digital anti-drug campaign I've seen.

The decent amount of choices you have of killing people and their pleading words for their life have also really struck home with me. There have been three instances where I genuinely hated killing the game character.

@MantisDragon:

I've wondered that myself. I called into Public Radio to bring the social commentary up and was met with dead silence and then surprise. The social satire and the fact that the games are -- first and foremost -- a satirical take on the American gun culture, is what interests me in the games. It seems to go over the heads of most gamers (play online and see how many noticed), ALL critics of the game (politicians, etc.), and game publishers trying unsuccessfully to capture the humor and magic of the game by throwing in names like, "Freckle Bitches" for fast food joints. You know who you are, THQ.

@Arttemis: So true, in my opinion its the first GTA with a heart, nobodies perfect in the city, even Roman is addicted; to gambling

@Jayenkai: Yep, you're right

Baby steps I guess...

Killing is "occasionally optional..."

Does this mean the game no longer baits you into fights? I'm used to walking down the street minding my own business, and before I even alienate any gangs, someone shoots at me, I return fire, and the cops chase me down, so I take them out, and before I know it I have the army after me for trying to walk from point a to point b...

If it doesn't do that anymore then it's made a giant leap in realism right there.

@fuchikoma: It doe not do that anymore. If you dont instigate fights there is little chance there will be one.

Ocassionally an NPC will committ a crime, but the cops will shoot at and even arrest them.

I personally was very disappointed with GTAIV. I really liked the story line and Niko's character. I found him the best character in all past games and it was his story that kept me playing. I never really cared for the story in the past.

That being said, the gameplay I was disappointed with the most. Sure it has more details but I found it less fun. Wow, I can bump somebody and they drop their coffee...so what. I found very little to do besides just roaming to see what was there but really nothing to find or do when you get there. They made big claims about the verticle nature of the city, but there are very few reasons or missions that require you to really go up on the outside of buildings. And the driving, really hate the slidy wobbly nature of the vehicles. Just taking a slow turn and your vehicle rocks to one side like it doesn't even have shocks. With the game all about driving fast and taking corners at super speeds with cops on your tail they certainly did everything they could to slow you down.

Just didn't like the gameplay as much as past games, but liked the characters and story better. That kills the longevity for me as I used to love exploring every nook and cranny and driving and just don't in this game.

Hey Bashcraft someone WAS stabbed in line for GTA IV and Kotaku reported it.

[kotaku.com]

@GPman:

I agree. A lot of fun interactivity was missing from the game (compared to San Andreas), as well as the humor. A lot of the silliness was traded away for realism. The first thing I tried to do was rob a Burger Shot and they didn't even try to call the cops (or pay out). No B&Es. No parachutes. No planes. No bicycles (that's understandable, given it's New York, but come on). No dune buggies. No army. Just super amounts of detail, which LOOKS great, but you can't really play with it. At least you can still climb fences.

GTA4 is a much more serious endeavor this time out, and I hope they get it out of their system so that when the next one comes, all that tongue-in-cheek that permeated the PS2 releases comes back. I can understand why they did it, of course - there's a whole new audience to capture. Still, as a fan of the series, each outing saw a step forward in gameplay; now we have a step forward in graphics, and a tiny step backwards in gameplay. It'll all come back when we re-visit Vice City. :)

I do, however, like the moral ambiguity of Niko. Compared to Vercetti or Carl, he's not anywhere close to being as cold. He sits on that moral fence where he doesn't really like what he does, but he does it 'cause he's got no other options. This is really fleshed out when you stop to do the Random Stranger bits - his good nature shines in these missions, even though he ends up killing people most of the time. For example (spoiler here, look away), there's a girl you can meet in a park who's jonesing for a fix. Niko tries to talk her out of it, but rather than have her sell her body for the money, he just gives her what she needs. It's weird because it's not extreme good or extreme evil, but it shows he has some sort of a heart and that some things are sacred to him. Very cool.

Anyone who called GTA a killing simulator obviously never tried to kill anyone.

@JustinS:
Thanks for the reply. It really sounds like this game has matured into more of a real city from the PS2 line. If I see any left on shelves today I'll pick it up.

The only reason they are writing anything about GTA 4 is to get on the bandwagon... GTA will get them hits to their website/publication.. if it wasn't as successful as it is they would have ripped on the game even worse.

Hmmm... To be honest, all I really want to know is where do I go to get those gloves for Niko in-game?

@HepCat: Well, I can guarantee that you won't find it in one of the three stores they have in Liberty City. Not the shopping mecca it's based on, clearly.

@JustOneFix: And considering their readership, you'd suspect that they'd get more "hits" if they instead printed a headline such as "GTAIV Turns People Into Child Murdering Devil-worshippers". Odd how that's not the case.