How many copies did Rockstar lose out on selling because some buses didn't remind gamers that the game was coming?

How sweet would of it been if some crazed loony hi-jacked a bus that had the ad and killed dozens of innocent people? 4 Star or 6 Star wanted level?

The City of Chicago is in a tight spot here. On one hand, you have a city sensitive about a recent crime wave that had 20 people shot in one weekend.

Then the news reporting that 'there's a link between Grand Theft Auto and violence, and look who's advertising it? The CTA' -

So, I can see why Ron Huberman of the CTA made the call to take down the ads - but he clearly made the wrong call.

I also feel that Fox News should be held liable for their 'shock style' of reporting. When you make up facts as a part of a scare tactic in your journalism - you need to be held accountable. That report did no service to the community.

It's okay to let one go once in a while, guys.

The CTA, honestly, is a f***ing MESS. There are so many problems with the management structure - you would never know where to begin.

This was probably a decision made by one person in the advertising department. That's the tendency over there, anyways.

@Biscuitcleaver: It doesn't matter if GTA lost any sales because the ads were pulled. CTA and Take-Two had a contract and the CTA breached that contract.

I'm sorry, when you mentioned CTA, all I thought of was Peter Ceterra's mighty warble promising me that he's got a lot of love and he's not gonna let go.

@Biscuitcleaver: Oh, don't get me started on Fox News. My friend is the producer. He says he's trying to work it from the "inside out". So far, it's not working.

They need some time to play the game so they know what they're talking about.

AHAHAHA, sorry, sorry. Of course not. They're just buying time so they can come up with a strong anti-gaming yet non-inflammatory defense that they hope will get the monkey off of their back.

When I saw the headline and first paragraph, I thought the article was going to say that Take-Two was suing the CTA for using an acronym too similar to the now-popular GTA. Oh well, but what does it say about Take-Two that I'm willing to believe that they'd do that?

Anyone else think Rockstar is overreacting a bit here? Obviously the bus ads being pulled didn't hurt sales (as a matter of fact, 1000 times more people probably saw the ads because they were pulled). While I'm against the ads being pulled, I think an argument could be made due simply to the title of the game. If "The Sopranos" were called, "Grand Theft Auto" it may have gotten into the same trouble. When all is said and done I guess CTA made a poor decision removing the ads and I think Take Two is making an equally poor decision suing CTA.

@Snake726: Except that this monkey is armed with a rocket launcher and ragdoll physics.

Maybe they'll build some sort of mission in in the DLC in the future to implant the ads into the transit system in the game. That'd be a cute little tongue-in-cheek swipe.

In a situation like this, it is much less about "lost sales" because admittedly, I doubt Rockstar lost much if any sales due to the ads being pulled. The issue at hand is much more of fair treatment. Why should R rated films and adult TV, which are equally adult and "instructional" to kids being advertised when a game's ads are pulled.

Heck, you could play through GTA never visiting a prostitute or killing innocent civilians. There is nothing that forces you to be "evil" and, as far as I know, the main character in GTAIV is one who doesn't even like fighting. Thus, the game takes on an questioning tone where the player is forced to make their own judgement calls on what is "right" and "wrong."

If viewed through the lens of satire and social commentary, these games provide an interesting and enjoyable take on life. They can also provide an outlet, allowing people to try things they would never do normally. I know I sure as hell wouldn't jump off a cliff on a vespa in real life and expect to survive with minimal injuries, but in GTA, sure, why not?

There is a division between reality and fantasy and anyone who doesn't see that is trying to pass the blame for their actions away from themselves.

If the CTA wanted to pull the ADs, well then they should return the money.

Let it go man. CTA is in enough trouble as it is.

it was funny, the morning after the Weas... FOX News report claiming that the ads were pulled, i saw one on a bus on my way to work.

Huh I always walk by one GTA ad at a CTA bus stop on the way to class, I thought it was still there last I looked, maybe they haven't gotten to it yet.

But yeah, CTA made a bad knee-jerk move. Only problem here, at least for me, is the CTA is already pretty low on funding making all the routes super slow as is. Hopefully they can settle this in a way that doesn't involve them losing a ton of money that could have been used to speeding things up and getting more bus routes out there.

@y2julio:

Agreed, i think if they took off the ads, they should give back money they gained from placing the ad. I feel this is the main thing take-two is going after.

@Biscuitcleaver:

Even though all of us know that this is Fox News fault, we all know they will not be a part of this. I also bet if they "report" this news, they are going to make Take Two look like the bad people.

This is basic contract law. Trust me. This will cost the City of Chicago/CTA alot more than the $300,000. I moved away from Wrigleyville when Nazi Daley was threatening to enter private garages to check for street parking stickers. Great city, crummy government.

@7ucky: no it is not.

To everyone who says T2 should let this go, don't you think they should at least get the $300,000 they paid for the ads back? I mean the CTA broke a contract. I think thats T2's main beef, not so much lost revenue due to consumer unawareness.

@Sloopydrew: I agree that the CTA made a poor decision in pulling the ads, and that's specifically why I think Take Two is justified in suing them.

The CTA has every right to control what they advertise. But if a company pays them $300,000 to advertise on their buses, they're contractually obligated to run those ads. Take Two isn't suing because they lost potential sales profits; they're suing to get the $300,000 they spent back, I would imagine. That's not exactly a "rounding error."

Point is, they should screen their advertisers beforehand, instead of objecting after they get paid, pulling the ads, and keeping the money.

@Gray665:
Agreed, consumer unawareness in this case seems nearly impossible.

When it comes right down to it, the issue is this:

Take Two paid the CTA $300,000 in return for running ads for an agreed-upon length of time. CTA accepted the money and then didn't run the ads.

This is breach of contract, and it's a big deal.

Also remember that EA is interested in gaining control of Take Two. If current Take Two management doesn't address this breach of contract, that's ammo for the EA guys who want the stockholders to believe that EA can manage Take Two better than Take Two's current management can.

This is all easily sum'd up.

T2 want that $300K back probably cause it's more than the revenue that they lost. I do agree that the Ads shouldn't of been pulled without some kind of refund.

@Biscuitcleaver:
Yeah thats called Deviance Amplification and Moral Panic. The media creates that shit 24/7

easy way to understand it media likes to stir up a shit-storm.

Take-two should absolutely not "let this go." They dropped 300k on an advertising campaign and the CTA pulled it, breaching the contract. You don't get to do that without facing the ramifications.

Don't get me wrong, I don't live in Chicago and I don't have the slightest proper perspective on the events and the emotions coursing through the city at the point in time in question, but the law doesn't get tossed on its ear because Fox is doing sensationalism as usual.

@Rebel Without Applause: How sweet would it have been? You're asking how sweet it would be if some loon hijacked the bus and murdered a bunch of people with it.

Yeah, that wouldn't be sweet at all. More like, you know, horrible. See, because when real people die, it's not funny. You must have missed that class, I guess?

The biggest lie in the world is when someone who is getting sued says they're not aware of the lawsuit, haven't read it and can't comment. And then, after they read it, they say they can't comment on pending litigation, like it's some sort of crime - when people who are doing the suing and probably gonna win have nooooo problem gabbing about it. I just felt like pointing out that horseshit. CTA is fully aware of what is going on here and capable of commenting, because I guarantee you Take Two's people spoke to them to resolve this before filing the suit, and used it as a threat in negotiations. The idea this came out of nowhere is utter crap.

@Biscuitcleaver: That is such a true statement. Fox makes defamatory statements that are completely unsubstantiated and puts them out there as fact. That is the textbook definition of libel, and it is about time someone held them accountable.

Good for TTWO. The CTA is still full of ads for the R rated "Street Kings." And those ads actually feature handguns.

Good on Take Two. Making a stand for the industry.

What the shit, I live in Chicago and I see GTA4 ads all the time at bus stops and I've even seen it on a few buses. Maybe they yanked things on buses and bus stops on the south side of Chicago ...

This case is obviously open and shut. CTA signed a contract, breached it, and don't expect any retribution for it? retards...

This is just another example of video game companies sticking up for themselves. I'm really, really glad that this trend is happening.

Contract law aside, it's ridiculous that the CTA would pull GTA ads and leave up other violent media ads. And TT are calling them out on it.

I wish more companies were like EA and Take Two, in this regard.

@ResetSmith: I've heard this theory banded about, and, based on what I've seen, it's not true. Now, maybe I still missed the ones it was gone from, but it's not just a "only the South Side" phenomena.

CTA breached a contract, as a public company, for discriminatory reasons. Is T2 simply asking for their money back, plus some for having to spend time in direct response to CTA breaking contract?

Seems fair.

@Sloopydrew: A contract is a contract. If the CTA's contract said "We'll run ads between these dates on this many buses, give us money" and then they don't run the ads, T2 at least deserves their money back promptly. If the contract didn't have any clauses for not running the ads, then T2 probably deserves damages as well.

@Owen Good: It is a CYA type thing to be sure, but it is possible that the spokesman hasn't seen the lawsuit himself yet so can't comment. Since T2 probably sent the lawsuit directly to CTA's lawyers, it's quite possible!

On your comment in general:
I always thought companies might avoid commenting on pending litigation to avoid charges that they were trying to influence the outcome of the lawsuit by blabbing to the media. The general "We do not believe these charges have any merit and we look forward to our day in court. Thank you." is a nice catchall and avoids the mudslinging that can come back to bite you in the butt. There have been companies that have been haunted by what they said to the media not exactly matching up with the claims made in court!

Plus, if you are Big Company X being sued by Little Guy Y, even if you are COMPLETELY innocent you probably want to keep your mouth shut. Let it get settled in court, because if you are a big company you'll end up getting skewered in the media if you start talking.

@Sloopydrew: No, I don't think they're overreacting enough! That is what I think. Stupid media....I blame the media blamers!

@ResetSmith: I'm not in chicago, but my experience with cities is that most bus stops are not owned by the city or transit authority, they're usually owned by private advertising firms - all the ones in my city are owned by either CBS or Viacom

Great, here's another Illinois government agency loosing money to the whole "games are evil thing." First Blago owes I think around 500k to the ESA over the illegal video game law he tried to pass, and now this.

The CTA and Illinois is already hurting very badly for money, apparently, they haven't quite learned that going after the video game industry for political gain costs quite a bit of money in the long run.

Hopefully this will teach them not to discriminate. Make no mistake, this is discrimination. The damning thing is that R-movies are still allowed. I don't want to blow up there spot, but would they refuse to advertise a book, a play, a tv show with the same content? What is their reasoning besides discrimination and stereotyping?

I think this is more a 1st Amendment issue than a breach of contract issue. Best example is Change the Climate vs MBTA
([www.changetheclimate.org]),
Where the US First Circuit Court ruled that a quasi-governmental (and by extension a governmental) transit agency could not restrict ads based on viewpoints.

And as T2 pointed out, the CTA is running ads for TV shows and movies that are the same in content if not worse than GTA IV.

Wait - Grand Theft Auto is out? When did this happen!

Take-Two is suing the taxpayers. YOU DESERVE IT, CHICAGO.

@Sloopydrew: If you pay 300K for a service, you damn better GET the service, or at least a refund.

So no, I hope Rockstar wins this lawsuit.

@Rebel Without Applause: I find your name to be very fitting to your statement. I doubt that anyone would 'applaud' it at all. Do you feel like a "rebel" by saying that massmurder via city bus would be "sweet"? I am guessing your age to be around 11 or 12 with your I.Q. being slightly south of that.

You and posts like yours are the reason why gamers have the reputation that we do. Even the term itself (gamer) is starting to carry a more and more negative connotation in the media, and with statements like yours it isn't hard to see why. You are basically the embodiment of all the stereotypes that the media has attached to gamers.

You and your comment make their argument for them that "gamers" are all violent, bloodthirsty, mindless morons who are completely desensitized to violence and crave death and destruction. You and comments like yours are the reason why the Jack Thompsons of the world get attention, and the reason why Fox news runs the stories that they do about how violent video games poisons everyone and everything that touches them.

If someone was to Google the reactions from the incident in Chicago (and trust me media outlets pay people to do this) they would get a link to this posting and YOUR comment would be read first. Your ignorance would be taken as the sample from which the entire site would be painted. It is sad how one moronic statement like yours can kill the credibility of an entire community.

Please, do us all a favor and just go away.

@Mr.SithNinja:
I can see your point here. But perhaps you are taking what was said out of context. Just like the media would do. I could be very wrong, but I see the comment, "How sweet would of it been if some crazed loony hi-jacked a bus that had the ad and killed dozens of innocent people? 4 Star or 6 Star wanted level?" to be full of sarcasm.

Trying to bash someones age and IQ because of what may seem like an idiotic or ignorant comment, is just as bad as being the idiotic or ignorant commenter.

@Atheist Jew:
How the hell did you miss the sarcasm?

@Mr.SithNinja:
Wow, dude, I'm upset at what Rebel said, very upset, but not because I thought he/she meant it.

Its been said before, but to people who think T2 is over-reacting, you need to realize what they are fighting for. They are standing up, and putting a foot down, and letting everyone know that this prejudice against adult video games, as compared too movies, and music with similiar content, will not be tolerated.

Everyone who is tired of the unfair treatment games get in the media, needs to stand up and applaud take two for fighting.

@Gigith: @moe84: The sarcasm wasn't missed, it didn't exist. I should know. Anyone who has read my comments before would know I have a firm grasp of the concept to the point of making it an art form. Sarcasm isn't the pont here. Somebody reading it isn't going to bother to try to read into wether or not it was sarcastic. The damage is imediately done.

Maybe if it was follwed up or prefaced as being a joke then it may fly, but there was neither, because there was none intended.

@Owen Good: "We can't comment at this time." Is corporate speak for " We are guilty as Hell and are still trying to figure out how to spin it."

@Mr.SithNinja:
Ok, lets go back to school and re-read what was said...

"I can see your point here. But perhaps you are taking what was said out of context. Just like the media would do. I could be very wrong, but I see the comment, "How sweet would of it been if some crazed loony hi-jacked a bus that had the ad and killed dozens of innocent people? 4 Star or 6 Star wanted level?" to be full of sarcasm.

Trying to bash someones age and IQ because of what may seem like an idiotic or ignorant comment, is just as bad as being the idiotic or ignorant commenter. "

Ok good, now I some what agree with your post, about the media and how people will flame, or try to flame the gaming community for posts like this. Especially if taken out of context. Who are you to say there is no sarcasm? Just because the person has not come back yet... busy? Have a life? Maybe they had every intent on being rude, immature... what ever. The fact is... I am not trying to defend what the "Rebel" said.

My point is...
(another quote)
"Trying to bash someones age and IQ because of what may seem like an idiotic or ignorant comment, is just as bad as being the idiotic or ignorant commenter."

Now back to the topic at hand. Sure great, congrats to Take Two for standing up for "the gamers". Or is it, good job for following up on your contract with a company, and seeking restitution for your lost investment(I think so). But does it really affect the "gaming community"? I think not, correct me if I am wrong, but from what it looks like, Take Two is going after their lost investment, which is great. But it does not affect us the "gamers" at all. Especially those of us who don't play GTA, or... any other game by Take Two(that I can think of). If any of this affects anyone, or any gamer. It will most likely be those who live and or shop in Chicago. If the city ends up paying any money back, or what ever. It could very well hit the tax payers in Chicago.
I think I will be safe way down here in Texas. =)

@LittleBigGuy: this isn't really a political move by T2... as stated by people before this is about breach of contract, plain and simple. They had a contract, paid for the contract, and CTA backed out (which was a politically motivated move) and T2 wants their money back.

@sethmad: I think it says more about you and less about Take-Two...that is just my opinion, of course.

@moe84: Wouldn't your "let's go back to school" comment be along the same line as me calling out his age and I.Q.? :-)

If YOU go back and read MY original post it was about what statements like his do to the gamer reputation. Shit like helps keep Fox News spewing it's bile in OTHER stories about games and gamers, and keeps JT in front of a camera.

My comment had nothing to do with the current story. It was about the image that is portrayed in the media in general and how people with comments like that aren't helping anything.

@Mr.SithNinja:
"Wouldn't your "let's go back to school" comment be along the same line as me calling out his age and I.Q.? :-)"
No, I have yet to call you names. Just stating lets go back to school. You maybe in school, I maybe in school. Maybe Rebel is in school... what I said had nothing to do with age or IQ, people go to school at all ages.
I was NOT making a comment about your Fox and media lines. Part of that "I see your point there" In fact, I agree with you. However...
"I am guessing your age to be around 11 or 12 with your I.Q. being slightly south of that." Is what I am referring to. I am not trying to bash you in any way %n(some of you may get that). Just implying that calling someone out using age and IQ as your reason why they said what was said, is just as bad, as what was said.

Now, as stated before. I see sarcasm in what Rebel said. And like I said, I could be wrong.
(lots o' saids in this post, sheesh)

This topic is getting boring. Someone cause some more drama. =)

/sign off
Brutallus needs to die tonight. =)

Suing CTA is just more media exposure at bargain prices for Take Two.