Kotaku
A lot of New Yorkers, myself included, are getting a little extra kick out of the vibe of Grand Theft Auto IV's Liberty City, which recalls our home boroughs with just enough accuracy to be disorienting.
The farmacias and bodegas in East Holland, the Starbucks-esque cup in every hand, the prevalence of "Craplist" social interaction, even the thriving Russian community beside the boardwalk in Hove Beach where the story begins all capture that tickly feeling of home. But MTV Multiplayer's Stephen Totilo notes that from Bohan to Schottler, there are a few things about New York that GTA IV gets wrong, and he's compiled a tongue-in-cheek list of eight key items that are, as he says, "grossly misrepresented."
1. We are not a car town: No sensible New Yorker uses a car as their primary means of transportation in the city, unless — maybe — they commute from the suburbs. Car ownership doesn't make much sense. There are never any parking spots. Parking garages are prohibitively expensive. And, most importantly, the subway is a faster, cheaper and more efficient means of transportation. We don't drive here. Niko, to be a real New Yorker, should rely on the subway. But what would he be left to grandly thieve?
True enough. Certainly, in New York, only rich commuters who live in swanky penthouses or in the outlying boroughs have cars. Rent here for the average denizen is pricey enough without the cost of gas and parking — and, that aside, I'd never even think of owning a car here just due to the crushing traffic and inconvenience.
But there are a lot of cars here nonetheless, and having been many times a pedestrian nearly clipped by some crazy speeder cornering badly, it's a fun turnabout to be behind the wheel this time. If you do happen to be in a car, people always seem to be wandering into the crosswalk at the worst of times — that, at least, is accurate.
Totilo picks more hangups: There are no dinosaurs at the Met! Times Square — er, Star Junction — should be much more congested with pedestrians, it's true. And bagels are a quintessential part of our diet, unobtainable in Liberty City.
8. We eat bagels: Have I missed something or is it not possible to eat a bagel in "Grand Theft Auto IV"'s Liberty City? Niko can eat burgers, hot dogs and go to diners. But bagels? The most famous New York City food? Never fear, visitors to our town, we have bagels that can be eaten and enjoyed, whether Liberty City acknowledges it or not. Burgers? Waste of time. You can eat them in any town.
Two more that he missed: First, why do Liberty City's pedestrians walk so slowly? You can always spot a tourist as the one who's ambling casually down the sidewalk, neck craned upward to eyeball the skyscrapers. But real New Yorkers, everyone knows, walk at a breakneck pace, head down, heedless of who they shoulder aside, as we are all on the way to someplace very important and you'd better get out of the way.
And finally, where are Manhat— um, Algonquin's legions of tiny, tiny little doggies? It's the must-have accessory for Upper East Siders. We don't mean to quibble with such a fantastic game world, but, you know.
8 Things 'Grand Theft Auto IV' Gets Wrong About New York City, Including Bagels [MTV Multiplayer]
Comments
I've picked up quite a few hookers and to date, not one of them has had a penis, surely that can't be right?
i believe it's the manual or map that says it's a "city for walking", granted i don't have it all in front of me at the moment to give an exact quote
and there's probably less pedestrians for framerate purposes, though i do agree with that point - i haven't been to New York, but i've seen how crazy it can get at large cities
No fun in running over kids or dogs...
Please take notes on that Running With Scissors
Hah! As a New Yorker, I don't know whether to be offended, or to incriminate myself.
New York? I thought the game took place in Liberty. ;)
Honestly, as a proud Texan, I'm glad there are no bagels. Of course, if they ever released a GTA set in Dallas or Houston, I'm pretty sure I'd have some crazy thing to complain about.
First they complain that it's too much like New York, now they're complaining it's not like New York enough.
The comments to the article are hilarious and saddening at the same time.
I'd say New York is more famous for Pizza than bagels, but both should be included. The hotdog stands are nice, but they need a Gray's(Mike's, Chelsea) Papaya type place in there as well. Where are the bikes and bike messengers/delivery men? The street should be filled with bikers taking weed, Chinese food, packages, etc. all around the city. Also where are the horse drawn carriages? I'd love to steal one of those. And where's the Merengue in the Washington Heights area? It should be playing constantly.
Wow... The comments in there are brutal.. It's like every single one of them forgot what the hell sarcasm is.
Both!
I've been thinking about the lack of animals too. There isn't a single animal other than the 200 hidden packages. I'm guessing that animal activists would have a field day if you could just go up and kill dogs on the street....people now, they're okay I guess.
What goes good with a bagel?
Hot coffee
That is why they didn't put them in.
@Pezdispenser:
Hahah has a Houstonian, I'd complain that eternal I-10 construction isnt in game. Damn thing will never be wide enough! They been working on that thing since the 60's and 70's.
@Jechticknight: well as a NewYorker myself, i'd say incriminate yourself then.
Most New Yorkers take the subway cuase it's so easy. However, it's not Grand Theft Auto (emphasis added) with trains...that would be strange. So having Niko drive around shouldn't be a big deal. And besides, you can still drive in the NYC and find parking...just not in times square.
Comedy Gold Alert: Follow the link and read the comments on the article. GOLD.
it just isn't times square without huge waves of people.
Also from the screen shots I've seen there is too much English on the signs, Does the game have entire neighborhoods with signage is Hebrew, Arabic, Russian, Korean or at the very least Spanish or Chinese?
@Ewiltwin - Yes, I'm so glad that most of the commenters on OUR site exhibit MUCH more grace and intellect.
;)
Living in Manhattan, I have to say the absence of bagels doesn't bother me too much, but it is very true that walking through midtown the pedestrians should be moving fast as possible and not care if they knock the rest of the street over if it will get them to the subway one second earlier.
And thats another point. I don't own the game. Can you even ride the subway? It would be cool if Niko could steal a car, drive around locally, but to cross town he could just jump into the subway and get there in half the time.
#7 is wrong, you do pay tolls to cross over into the NJ part of Liberty City.
Maybe the 50 million that Microsoft payed is to include downloadable bagels and pizza places!
Fable had a moral system, children, and animals so why not have in GTA4. Same with Oblivion (no kids though). GTA is all the pleasure with none of the risk. boo.
......... says:
May 5th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
you suck, this article isn't worth looking at. do some research.
My favorite comment on that page.
Wow those comments on the blog are retarded.
You know as much as I complain about Kotaku peeps, as least we have a sense of humor.
If you're making a phone call, you don't pay a toll, the bar just raises.
I discovered that little tip myself.
never knew NYC for bagels, only hot dogs and pizza.
People who moan about the number of people on the street obviously don't understand the ridiculous memory requirements this game has. To flood it with a "realistic" number of people would reduce GTA's performance to a slide-show, and there is no way that would be released. The lack of children and pets to mow down on the sidewalk was a tasteful omission, because this game is controversial enough without allowing for that type of behavior. As for bagels...eff 'em. Its a game, you eat food, and you get health back. Of course they didn't offer every type of food that is available in a major metropolitan city! Like they'd have a fallafal shop, and place for gyros...heck, I haven't even found a pizza shop yet!
Quit yer bitchin, and juse enjoy the game.
@rockett1:
his point is that the game is backwards... in the game you pay going from Liberty City. IRL you pay going to NYC.
@Kanik: There are so many to choose from! lol
Luckily the Kotaku readership seems to have a better sense of humour.
My complaint is there's no real people it's just polygons and things. That's not like New York! What happened?
@Moonshadow101:
haha you were right, that is a good read for a good laugh. that writer sure does need to learn how to talk to his readers, despite how critical they might be of his work.
Those comments are oddly similar to that of Kotaku when Owen made that faithful poll this weekend. Heh. Scary.
It's a lose-lose argument.
If it were any more like NYC then people would complain that it's promoting violence in real life scenarios. Where as, if it isn't, people will complain that it isn't anything like a real life city.
Sarcasm aside, if you're willing to find faults in a game that aren't really there, you deserve the backlash. Reason number six alone has me wondering why the author thought he had a valid basis for the post to begin with.
*twitch* The article was great, but... *twitch* those comments...
How can people that infuriatingly brain dead manage to use a computer without shorting out the keyboard with their own drool??
I was walking around NYC the other day and I saw an NYPD car and I almost started running. Then I remembered it wasn't a game. Or is it?!?!...
This game takes place in Liberty City, not New York. They used New York as inspiration and did not try to make it exactly like NY.
@Raven9: Look! Some of those commenters have made their way over here!!! :)
Um, Niko can use the subway, as well as taxis. Anyway, I know lots of people in Brooklyn and Jersey who own cars. Plus, Niko's cousin owns a taxi service...there couldn't be a more accurate circumstance for an eastern European immigrant in NYC to be driving around all the time.
@Pezdispenser: You're glad there are no bagels in the game? What, too ethnic for you? LOL yeah I'm sure Rockstar plans to make the next GTA take place in Texas. It'll be called Grand Theft Pickup, and every mission would consist of driving around drunk talking about football.
@PresDNA:
don't know if you were being sarcastic or not, but i would say it is definitely FUN to run over dogs and kids.
I think I was running from the cops the other day and fled into a park and I could have sworn there were children playing in the park whom quickly became introduced to the front of my beat all to hell car, followed by a hoard of cops mowing the rest down with out a worry in the world....
good times
If the article is just a joke...shouldn't it be, oh, I dunno....funny?
O.o
One of the stand up routines at the comedy club points lounge in cheek at the lack of animals in the game. He says 'there ain't a cat or dog in this motherfucker. Think back. You ain't ever seen one, have you?'. I'm sure that means, that in Rockstars inimitable style, they're aware people are noticing they aren't there.
Where are the donut shops (aka DD)?
And there are FAR more cops per street than I think any city could afford!
Took Lj, Roman and Michelle out to Cluckin Bell. "Thanks for eating at Cluckin Bell!"
@Derigor:
Amarillo myself, I'd mostly be worried that they expect 72oz steaks to be everywhere.
IRT the MTV comments
I find stuff like that more aggravating than funny.
@Meohfumado: Sarcasm and satire don't necessarily have to be funny. That's why they aren't called "comedy".
@dadeisvenm: The only places with Kids are where you cannot harm them. If any game would allow you to harm children as one of the many "moral choices" I am pretty sure it would bump the thing up to AO.
@Leigh and Kotaku readers
Thanks for going the extra mile and comprehending my article. Over on my site a guy just "defended" Rockstar by telling me the Housers don't know the details of NYC because they don't live here. Really.
And Leigh is totally correct about the walking speed. People of Liberty City, speed up!
@harlock_JDS: Yes, you can find a lot of signs in other languages around the city.
I was talking with friends about how there's that extra level of immersion for anyone who has memory of New York and that we wish there'd be a game set in Toronto.
I have a question for New Yorkers.
If the East Burough Bridge exists (under another name), why are there on/off ramps that run parallel to the bridge exit and only extend over one intersection?
Is there any dog/human shit and/or piss on the sidewalks in GTA4?
Stephen from MTV should go off himself.
@Spoony Bard: You made my day with that comment, Spoony! I literally lol'd.
@megaStryke: Satire usually is pointing out legitimate foibles and vice, and often uses sarcasm to this purpose. But the author is not doing this. If this is his intent, then judging by the large number of respondents he is getting who don't see the tongue-in-cheek aspect of the article, and just judge it as nit-picking, I award him an epic FAIL! in this regard.
Don't forget Pizza. I'd also like to see a few Halal street meat carts.
@Seruza: That's not nice
@StephenTotilo: Hey, thanks Stephen. See, we Kotakuites understand the meaning of irony.
Well, most of us anyways. ;)
@StephenTotilo: Aye. Don't let it discourage you. Many lesser writers have folded thanks to the the tremendous power of the Internet Idiot.
Doesn't help that the target audience of MTV is a known spawn point of said Idiots. :p
@StephenTotilo: You are most welcome :)
They made it an alternate reality for a reason! Come on, the Godfather and Spiderman game were set in the ACTUAL New York, and they weren't as accurate as GTA 4. It makes me so angry that some taletless prick [Not you, Leigh] can insult Rockstar's hard work based on the fact that they happen to live in a differemt city!!
Plus, I'm glad there aren't any little dogs in Algonquin; I'd probably end up doubling my game time just trying to shoot them all!
DAMN I'M ANGRY
@mind in rewind: Thanks Mind. Don't make a habit of "lol"ing though - I've seen people go to the hospital for repeated lol syndrome. ;)
@StephenTotilo: It amazes me how many people don't comprehend the article.
Good game internets, you win again.
@silkylove: In the Heights? that music is called Bachata, my friend.