Kotaku
Rumors have abounded regarding an upcoming motion control device for the Xbox 360, purportedly codenamed "Newton" — first, a loquacious anonymous source told MTV that such a controller is in development with support from developer Rare, and next 8bitjoystick pegged patents from Gyration, the same company responsible for Nintendo's Wii remote technology, as the likely tech behind Microsoft's top-secret project.
Gyration, however, unequivocally denied yesterday that it has any such project in development with Microsoft. However, talking to Rare, Microsoft and a company called Motus revealed more items of interest regarding the "Newton" — the picture seen above is Motus' "Darwin" controller.
"There's absolutely no truth to the rumors, and I have no idea where they're coming from," said a genuinely perplexed-sounding Zac Rivera, the PR rep for Movea Inc., the company that purchased Gyration in January 2008. He added, "Gyration is working on some game-related projects, but it won't be announced until later this year, and it is not related to the Xbox 360."
However, when it comes to motion controls, Gyration is not the only game in town. Boston-based Motus also develops motion controller tech for games, and, looking into the company for possible information on the "Newton," we learned that it has an existing product on the market already called the "Darwin."
Coincidence?
Motus calls its Darwin controller "the evolution of the Wii" (Darwin, evolution, SEE WHAT THEY DID THERE?), but Motus chairman Satayan Mahajan says he's not trying to trash-talk: "We really admire the Wii; we think it's a great device. It's done a lot for us... in bringing motion sensing out to the rest of the world. Darwin offers the next generation of Wii."
Mahajan says he's never heard of a project codenamed "Newton," but while Gyration offered an outright denial of a relationship with Microsoft, Mahajan refused to comment on what companies are currently using its technology. "There are publishers in studios using it right now, but we have not announced our relationships."
So does Motus' Darwin aim to compete with existing motion controls, or add that kind of technology to products that don't currently have it?
"That's a tough question," Mahajan says. "We're doing what we're doing; we've created motion-based technology that offers wonderful control. Competition is kind of a natural part of doing business. Our goal is not to compete, but to do what we do and do it very well. We're not knocking down the Wii; we respect it and we admire it."
So where is Darwin aiming? "Darwin will work on console as well as PC. One [console] has very good motion controls... the PlayStation's Sixaxis struggled a little bit, and I think the other consoles, as well as PC, are looking for full motion-based solutions too," said Mahajan. "If you look at the rumor mill... it looks like Microsoft is coming up with something, and we have something... So motion-based control is needed on the other consoles, as well as PC."
The other consoles? You mean, other than PC, PlayStation and the one with "very good motion controls"? Isn't that just one console?
Motus has a previous relationship with Microsoft, too. Its iClub technology encompasses motion analysis and capture, and they've been at that for nearly five years now. The iClub technology was used in Microsoft's Links golf title in 2005. Is Motus continuing to work together with Microsoft?
"I couldn't tell you that," Mahajan said. "I would love to tell you that, but I can't."
One point Mahajan made is that when publishers release Wii titles where motion plays a key role - say, a Harry Potter - they lose "two thirds of their revenue" because without the motion controls that make magical wand-waving what it is, those titles don't sell as well on Xbox 360 and PS3.
We talked to Aaron Greenberg, director of product management for Xbox 360 and Xbox Live to see how concerned Microsoft is about losing the attention of that waggle-loving, more casual market.
"Nintendo's success is great for us," says Greenberg. "It's helped broaden the industry, and we feel like we're a part of that effort. I think that Xbox 360 is a great compliment to that experience; our belief is we offer an experience that has a broad appeal from teens to adults and even young adults... what we're seeing right now, coming out of last holiday, is that the fastest-growing segment for us is teenagers and teenage girls. With Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Dance Dance Revolution... the music genre has really exploded and those titles are selling best on Xbox 360."
In Greenberg's view, the all-inclusive motion-based Wii experience is a gateway drug for young consumers who eventually "graduate" to the Xbox 360. But the Wii has the broadest install base among current consoles — how much of that does Greenberg feel is due to the Wii's controls? "Motion control in particular... I wouldn't say that has been the differentiator. It helped contribute to the Wii's success but it created a backlash for Sony. It's not necessarily about motion or no motion, but it's about the implementation of that experience."
He continues, "People buy your console to be entertained, and they buy it for an entertaining gaming experience. By having motion, that doesn't make the gaming experience any better. There's certain types you've seen where it's definitely been unique... and some where you don't want a motion control, like when playing GTA or Madden or a racing game or an RPG. Wii Sports worked well, but in this industry, people want a lot more variety beyond the whack-a-mole type of experience that you get with that."
Does that mean Microsoft has plans to add motion controls only for certain kinds of games? "We haven't announced anything like that," he said. "We really don't comment on those types of speculative rumors."
But does the company think it's necessary to take a cue from Wii and loop in more of the casual audience? Not necessarily, says Greenberg, implying the hardcore gamer is still the platform's main priority. "The fact is, if you look at the top selling and best-rated games in the industry, you'll find that majority of those titles are on Xbox 360," he says. "Four genres drive 80 percent of sales. We've got the top-rated games and the most exclusives in those genres. If [gamers] are only going to buy one system, we feel like we offer the complete experience."
Leaked documents on a possible upcoming Rare title called The Fast And The Furriest, featuring surly squirrel Conker, suggested that the game might include a Wii-like motion control scheme. But an anonymous source inside Rare says that game is just a rumor, noting, "A new Conker game doesn't really factor that high up on our agenda."
Apparently, says the source, lead designer and Conker creator Chris Seavor is sick to death of the character and the franchise, and prefers to back-burner any title featuring the Rare mainstay. "We really don't want to run the risk of being pigeonholed as a casual games developer," adds the source. However, Rare belongs to Microsoft now. "They own us outright, but they still respect our creative integrity," stresses the source.
Still, our source could neither confirm nor deny rumors that the game was once or is currently in development, and nor would the source comment on the waggle rumors. "Many things are possible, but that's not to say that any of them could be true," the source says.
In fact, adds the source, "All this speculation couldn't have come at a worse time for us." Why? Rare would prefer fans focus not on rumors, but on the very true impending launch of Banjo 3, about which the whole team is enormously excited. "Don't expect a traditional platformer," promises the source, "We've gone away and invented a game mechanic that's never been in any game before."
So Microsoft may feign disinterest in the women, kiddos and seniors who've caught the Wii-waggle bug, Rare may be sick of Conker and prefer not to be a "casual developer," and Gyration swears it's not involved. But Darwin developer Motus is keeping the truth close to its chest, so it's unlikely the rumors about the "Newton" will die down anytime soon.
Comments
Whyyyy?
MS is being ridiculous. It's like they're blatantly ignoring the fact that, oh, I don't know...the Wii exists?
Maybe it's just me but this "current gen" round of system should be dubbed "the controller milking gen" rather than the "high def gen".
Anyone else with me on this one? We've bought so many controllers and peripherals this gen that not making off of hardware seems a moot point. They make it all back and lots more making us buy the same controllers multiple times for negligible upgrades.
boy that was a long read, I lost interest after the 8th paragraph.
Slowly we creep towards 'The One' console... Or, the PSWii 720!
...Hope this feature does not get the RRoD.
Brain overload...so many topics discussed.
The best part of this article? The Banjo 3 details. Bring it on!
So basically, we still have no idea if a wii-like controller is on the way for 360. I'm sure they're discussing it behind the scenes, but so much stuff happens behind the scenes that never amount to anything. It's just research and trying things out.
By the way, does anyone know if that Majahan guy is correct? People tend to buy multiplatform games on the Wii? I thought (a)Wii gamers don't buy many games and (b)Multiplat games are always extremely inferrior on Wii, so they'd sell better on 360/Ps3/PS2. Anyone know the actual way it goes?
Can't wait until I one day graduate to my 360. **rolls eyes**
Article: too long.
But on a related note, why can't motion sensing just stay with the one brand that has it?
I think it is effective in a Wii-type environment, but everything else feels forced(Heck, even some Nintendo games feel forced_
@Meuacan: So...because Nintendo is having success with their remote accessory, Microsoft or Sony aren't allowed to duplicate that tech and use it for their own console?
Were people this panicky and short-sighted when Sony rolled out the Dual Shock and Nintendo followed up with their rumble paks?
Whatevere motion controller Microsoft releases should be compatible with the PC -- that'll knock naysayers to their knees right there. If it's the case that I can easily integrate it with my PC and 360, it would be worth a purchase.
TL:DR.
I'm kidding, frankly I think the idea won't pick up quite as nicely as MS expects it too. Why? Well the casuals who bought the Wii already have their Wii Sports and soon their Wii Fit so why would they give a crap about a more expensive rip off?
Just my two pennies.
Yawn. I wish Microsoft would stick to kicking ass in the hardcore gamer market and leave waggling casualness to the Wii.
This story was also hard to follow because it meandered into so many different areas.
@Eothein: But what Microsoft could theoretically do is "level the playing field".
When they and Nintendo both have the "Wii-Motes" then the one thing Microsoft has going for it is the graphic power of the 360 when compared to the Wii.
Sometimes prettier graphics win out. People are STILL partial to "pretty".
"Newton" is a great name for something like this -- for its implications re: the origin of the studies of calculus and physics, and for the fact that it was an apple that hit Newton on the head.
Microsoft, taking a cue from Nintendo, who was taking a cue from Apple.
Somewhere far away, some executive's wife's gold-plated chihuahua puppy silently begins to implode . . . . . .
. . . . . . for great justice!
@Meuacan:
lmao. Yeah, why Microsoft feels their only competition is the PS3, I never really understood.
Part of me wants this to be false because motion sensing is dumb and I don't want Microsoft to be a copycat.
But it really is about time they launch an attack on Wii.
@nintend0nick: S'truth. A young gamer is going to be sucked in by Wii. And one day he will grow up and want to be like all the other 12yo playing real games on PS3 and 360. Evolution baby.
Enjoyed the feature, nice job Leigh.
It seems like the company with the most to gain here is Motus. Had anyone heard of them before? I don't pretend to be particularly well versed in hardware manufacturers, but they were new to me. By riding the wave of this rumor, they get to increase their profile and play coy about the whole topic. Whether or not they are actually developing something, they benefit.
As for the whole idea of a motion controller for the 360, I just hope it doesn't happen. Maybe I'm narrow-minded, but I like lots of buttons and thumbsticks. It makes it possible to do more in a game. Sure, it would be fun to be able to swing the lightsaber in Force Unleashed (and the model controller in the picture screams "LIGHTSABER"), but not at the expense of complexity.
Maybe I'm in the minority here (actually, I'm pretty sure I am), but I don't care about a wii60 mote. I shudder to think that playing Mass Effect or CoD4 with one of those would be like. It might work just fine, but that has never been my experience the few times I've been able to play the Wii. The reason I read these articles is to find out just how much my fear of controller changes is justified.
@108: I'm going to paste my entire comment, including the Missing Paragraph I forgot to type:
"Newton" is a great name for something like this -- for its implications re: the origin of the studies of calculus and physics, and for the fact that it was an apple that hit Newton on the head.
Microsoft, taking a cue from Nintendo, who was taking a cue from Apple.
And Darwin, father of the theory of evolution -- evolution, which rhymes with "revolution", the code name for the Wii.
Somewhere far away, some executive's wife's gold-plated chihuahua puppy silently begins to implode . . . . . .
. . . . . . for great justice!
@EndersGame: I don't mind them making peripherals of any sort.
But Jesus freaking tapdancing Christ, that's a blatant ripoff.
Hell, look at Sony. They made the SIXAXIS, so they didn't have to carbon copy anyone (at least, not that I know of...someone correct me if I'm wrong, please).
All I ask of MS is that they develop something creative without having to resort to--
Oh, whatever. Damn. I'm just talking stupid. They're gonna go with it and people are gonna buy it. Bastages.
@EndersGame: Rumble Pak was out in Japan in April 1997, before the Dualshock.
I Know a good name for this "DON'T CARE"
he indirectly said that the 360 is needing this new "Darwin" but he may have meant that the ps3 and 360 and pc will all get it.
I totally saw this coming. It should have been expected for Microsoft to do this at some point.
@TheTog:
Hilarious, are you comparing yourself or 'hardcore' gamers to 12 yr olds?
Can't believe people still buy into your lame theory.
@EndersGame:
I'm pretty sure that the N64 had rumble first, even if only for a short period of time. Wikipedia says that N64 released the rumble pack in April of 1997, while the Dual Shock came out in later, when Gran Turismo was released.
@Meuacan: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Nintendo came really close to nailing it when they designed the Wii-mote but if Microsoft can duplicate the quality and possibly improve it. What's wrong with that? If Nintendo isn't outraged, you don't need to be and I assure you, Nintendo isn't outraged.
@Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc: "Rumble Pak was out in Japan in April 1997, before the Dualshock. "
Cool. So did people freak out when Sony rolled out their DS?
@Meuacan:
I actually think a wiimote for 360 would flop. It's too late. Wii already owns casual gamer's minds, and gamers who would want a Wii aren't going to plop out the extra cash for the 360 + the Wiimote clone + games.
And then there's the problem of supporting this thing with games. The Vision camera is a cool peripheral with no support right now.
P.S. Sony stuck the motion sensors into the controller like 2 weeks before E3 after they found out about Nintendo, according to some Sony developers. So, they're pretty much a rip off as well.
@JoseJX: I remember that the DS came out the day GT was released because I bought both the same day frsh out of the shipping box. When you're as old as I am...the details about which came out first gets kinda blurry.
@EndersGame:
"Were people this panicky and short-sighted when Sony rolled out the Dual Shock and Nintendo followed up with their rumble paks?"
I'd imagine not.
But mainly because the Rumble Pak was released in 1997 and the Dual Shock was released in 1999.
See, that was Sony ripping off Nintendo. They tend to do that a lot. Mostly out of spite.
@TheTog: I'm pretty sure that the games i play on my Wii are "real games" or do they need to have blood splattered all across the screen to be considered a real game :-?
@PerswAsian: lol
The Wii is built around the motion controls, but if it ever fails, there's still the nunchuk that provides a standard (albeit a bit different layed out) control scheme even without "waggle".
The PS3's motion controls seem tacked on, and since I don't follow the console I rarely hear any games that make a major use of them (except for Lair...oh Lair....). But judging by the return to the DualShock I'm guessing it didn't go well.
For the 360? It's dangerous territory. If they introduce motion controls, it's going to have to be a seperate peripheral/controller aside from current controllers.
So if the undertaking fails, the peripheral becomes useless for all but a select few games.
@EndersGame: Granted and proven. I understand completely. No, I'm not outraged. More annoyed than anything. Mostly at the lack of creativity that instead of making something original, they have to try to copy someone else. I'll be honest, I'm a MS fanboy before anything else and THIS makes me cringe.
See? Karasu NAILED it. They should be sticking to their guns with what they're known for, not going after a market that's already (somewhat) dominated. But that's me and I'm an idiot. What do I know?
@PerswAsian: "See, that was Sony ripping off Nintendo. They tend to do that a lot. Mostly out of spite. "
That's fine, but people losing their minds with the Vader-esque "Nooooooooooooo". I don't care who copied who, but people upset over Microsoft copying what appears to be a successful accesory...how is this a bad thing?
What I find MOST amusing about the whole article is that "Newton" and "Darwin" are both Apple projects already. Newton was of course the handheld, and Darwin is the name for their open source version of OS X. It's a Microsoft centric article, and all I can think of is Apple. It's funny because it's opposites of what you ares expectings!!
I think everybody is overlooking how MS has always seen the Xbox. They don't care about "today" they're preparing to dominate "tomorrow." They're positioning themselves as the PSWiiXbox in the next generation (beginning Xmas 2010), not the current one. The Xbox-Wiimote is being developed now to iron out the kinks so when Xbox 720 or whatever comes out in 2 1/2 years, they will have a de-bugged waggle option ready to go along with it. They will have Blu-ray. They will have a calendar lead on Sony and Nintendo by about a year and will leave no market for them. MS makes a lot of mistakes (like with this gen on reliability and no waggle, etc.) but they rarely make the same mistakes twice.
See this link for a very lucid discussion on this basic topic:
[dubiousquality.blogspot.com]
Hrm...should be pretty interesting if XNA supports this controller. I think it will be fun messing around with it.
eh, i wont lie, i dont like motion controls that much. i mean its fun for some games, but really, good games are good games, waggle or analog stick doesnt change much really.
That was a great read, Leigh. So far with the tidbits that we have to go on now, I'm pretty much convinced it's going to be a nIGHTS + analog Saturn controller kind of thing- Banjo 3 + "Newton".
Just proof that money buys anything. Go ahead Bill - Make your own Wii - and put internet on it.
We'll be best friends,
You can even call it the revolution.
Or hell, call it the Wii.
@PerswAsian:
Who cares? Did Nintendo rip off Sony going to a disc based system? Did they rip off Atari building a cartrige based system in the first place?
Anyway you slice it, Nintendo didn't invent motion control. They were just the first to use it in a console. Big deal.
Sounds like, when I read the linked article, that publishers, (like EA) when they make a waggly game (like Harry Potter) would prefer a unified waggle across all platforms so they can sell more games.
Look at the three last-gen controllers. They were all virtually identical. Developers like that.
Waggle works great for some games, not so well for others. For those games that it works well on, don't you think those publishers would like to sell them to more than Wii owners (who by and large don't buy 3rd party games anyway?)
If Microsoft were to market the Newton as a combination Wiimote and wireless microphone for Rock Band and GH4+, they might have a winner. The microphone idea isn't genius, but it does add a lot of value at very little cost. They could also let you use two Newtons per player at a time, which would be completely insane for some games.
I love my gamepad. I love my Wiimote (when it makes sense to use it). There's no reason the two can't co-exist on the same system in a non-lame fashion (looking at you, Classic Controller!).
Microsoft has been completely tight-lipped about the Spring dashboard update, so I'm expecting big things!