Great i make a fool of myself to read what that picture says and it turns out to be french! Another minute wasted :P

But i like this article more than the other one.

I disagree. In fact I would say Mr. Patnode, in many ways, sounds like one of those ... less than mature ... problem gamers who are partially responsible for the stigma attached to the name.

People sure do put a lot of thought into things that don't matter.

"... change to the fan sub-culture appears inevitable, but yet so are reactionary responses from the fans. But those responses are soon swallowed up by the progress of the sub-culture on the whole. Given this inevitability, is there reason for concern?"

allow me to reiterate my love of people who waste an entire paragraph spouting bullshit merely to earn another star for their pretention trophy case. =)

Reminds me of my favourite Threadless shirt: [www.threadless.com]

i don't ever call myself a gamer i just like Video Games i don't feel i need to be classified. but at the same time this argument made more sence.

Gamers are gamers.

Wow - that's one hell of an article.

"I too long for a day when video gaming is not treated as an infantile pastime, and a change in the popular consciousness regarding gamers is only likely to occur if more and more gamers assert their identity as valid. It is rather unfortunate that those gamers most likely to assert themselves may be exactly those most prone to engaging in ad hominem arguments."

Very well put. Quite interesting, thanks Maggie.

Personally, I would posit that the "Hardcore" prefix needs to be abolished; there is nothing more absurd in my opinion than self-identifying as a "hardcore-gamer," let alone using it as some sort of badge.

I completely agree with the original guy. I absolutely LOATHE the word 'gamer.' It's so awful. I cringe every time I hear it.

ceci n'est pas une pipe(this is not a pipe) by René Magritte is meant to be a paradox at first glance, since the painting is an illustration of a pipe, and not an actual pipe, thus the paradox is resolved. I don't get why this image is upside down though.

@kelptocratic: Yeah, I think the word hardcore should be thrown into the abyss, not just as a prefix for gamers, but u know... cast from the English language completly.

Honestly, video games are a hobby. Anyone who wants to make them anything more than that are the same type of people who secretly thrive off of the attention whenever Jack Thompson attacks Rockstar or something. I don't know how I missed Douglas Wilson's article the first time around, because he absolutely fucking nailed it. I'm physically embarrassed whenever anyone uses the word 'gamer' around me.

@i_lie_to_fit_in: Haha, Amen.

"If you visit Kotaku or similar sites and read the comments posted in response to Wilson's article you will encounter such kind of retorts nestled among those with far greater nuance. Once again, I know Wilson personally, and I can confirm that he is neither an idiot nor a feminine hygiene product. Unfortunately such accusations only serve to confirm Wilson's thesis. To the individuals who have written in this way, I will answer directly: there are more effective ways to respond to someone with whom you disagree. (Which means: please don't flame me also!)"

From the middle of the article, a very, very cogent observation. Its like we have an anti-intellectual cloud forming in some places in the gamer-scape that hate any observations that don't work with their vision of reality, whether thats just platform fanboyism at its extreme or actual prejudice.

I'm in agreement that the term "gamer" is not inherently negative, we just need to drown out the voices of intolerance among us with good deeds. Like Penny Arcade has done, and continues to challenge us all to do with Child's Play.

I like this subculture, and I won't let a bunch of punks, young or old, drive me away from it with their idiocy.

@kelptocratic: I totally agree with this. If gaming is your pass time to me you are a gamer. It shouldn't matter if you're playing 15 minutes at a time or 15 hours as long as you enjoy it. It seems like somewhere down the line instead of enjoying a game you only get your badge of honor if you spent 80+ hours playing it.

@Babylonian:

Why are you on this site??

@Babylonian: DIE! Just kidding, but honestly maybe you shouldn't come here anymore.

@Babylonian: "I'm physically embarrassed whenever anyone uses the word 'gamer' around me."

If I may be so bold, does that sense of embarrassment stem from what you may perceive as a negative connotation applied by those who don't involve themselves in video games, or from your perception, as one who enjoys video games, of your gaming peers? Or both?

The only real flaw with this as a critical essay is it could have used a deeper comparison that the Simpsons, like perhaps the general assault on comic books in the 50s, which was far, far worse than anything Jack Thompson is EVER going to be capable of.

Other than that, I really have to say I totally agree with him, its a matter of respect, and instilling that as a core value that is earned through good actions rather than bad ones.

The internet changed us into what we are. The anonymity of the internet is the perfect place for idiocy and flaming to thrive, and because no one knows who they are people say things they would never say to someone in "RL."

Personally, I'm proud to be considered a gamer, and in no way do I see the term gamer needing to be dropped. I mean, what do we do? We play games. What does that make us? Gamers. Any other name wouldn't make sense.

The thing to remember is that as gaming becomes more ubiquitous, there is less of need for labels such as "gamer". Do any of us call ourselves "net surfers" even though thats what we do, probably more than gaming? It just wouldn't make any sense, since its assumed everyone does it just like watching tv.

I think I'm going to have to agree with Wilson on this.

@Cchrist:
It's a parody of a work of modern art:
[en.wikipedia.org]

@DaiMacculate: I completely agree. But within every culture there are subcultures, and even beyond that there are further classifications. I feel that MMORPGers are different from FPSers, but they are still both gamers to me.

It is a bit of a moronic term. We don't call plane pilots 'Planers' or car drivers 'Carers'. It should revert to Players. Game players.

@NotPigeons: Magritte's work is pretty amazing.

For what it's worth, this is one of my favorites: [image.www.rakuten.co.jp]

@ErskinPig: Dunno about that, players? Play what, it's a bit too broad. Are we playing football, hockey, or table-top games? I honestly don't see why people get up in arms when someone uses the term gamer. The fact is whatever name we put with our hobby, someone is going to give it a connotation, good or bad. So changing the name is just going to bring about the whole argument all over again. Like it's been said before, we just need to work on getting rid of the grossly misslead beliefs that gamers are anti-social, lazy, mass murderers that some people are content on believing. I may not like Shakespeare, but this quote certainly applies, "A rose by any other name...." No matter what it's changed to the same old drum is going to be beaten against us.

Even without the negative connotations surrounding the term, I still think it's a little silly to put anyone who partakes in a particular activity under one umbrella.
Imagine if we did it with everything. I'm just as much a 'gamer' as I am a 'reader', a 'filmwatcher' and a 'hangaroundwithfriendsinacoffeeshoper'

Ugh... I hate the term 'gamer'. As me playing games puts me into some sort of sub-culture demographic. In Norway they actually say they're 'gamers' in English, instead of just saying 'I play video games' in Norwegian. It's such a stupid terms that's been laden with all sorts of silly connotations. If you visit an online store that sells games they have a "gaming" section instead of just "spill" (games in Norwegian). I'm not a 'gamer', I just play video games.

Video game players. 'Problem' solved.

Incidently, I really don't care about 'clearing the name' of gamers in the eyes of the wider public. Let them think what they like. Are we really that insecure?

If anything, making games more mainstream just makes it easier for companies like EA and MS to push forward their exploitative policies due the ignorance of the common man.

Fuck 'em I say. By gamers for gamers is the best way forward.

I game, therefore I am... a gamer.

@DaiMacculate: That part stuck out to me, too. I hate it when I'm playing Halo 3 in my living room with my headphones off (because, really, who can stand all that infantile noise from the other players in your ear?), and my lesbian roommate walks in just as some turd yells, "I'm gonna own your ass, faggot!" It's embarrassing to me, and I feel like I have to justify myself because of the company I keep.

I tend to think of "gamers" as the more mature members of Kotaku: people who play video games, and who take video games seriously enough to put some thought into it, to think of what it really means to play a video game, what that action implies. I don't think of the homophobic turds on Xbox Live as "gamers"; those people do not deserve that title. They are giving real gamers a bad name.

We just need to take some personal responsibility when it comes to gaming. Is that so much to ask? For some people, unfortunately, it is.

"if you like to boat they call you a boating enthusiast, i enjoy boating but i'd never want to be called a boating enthusiast, i hope they just call me a guy who likes to boat"

~RIP mitch!

but on topic, i like being a gamer, for every reason Patnode said. i like the community, i like the culture, and most importantly i like the games! in any subculture there are always going to be thoes who are immature and make the sub-culture look bad but that's not going to change if you get rid of the term "Gamer" i think we gamers are just easy to point to as being immature because we were some of the first to really adopt the internet as a way to get our ideas across. and unfortunately alot of our sub-culture are in the 12-20 year old demographic, and honestly when i was their age i did alot of the same stuff. the key for us older gamers is to try to teach these younger guys how to act appropriately even if they don't listen now, when they grow up a little they may remember your well articulated post about (insert subject here) and try to live up to that by posting something that is well thought out and well articulate. the anonymity of the internet allows some to act like fools, but that's not just in the gaming sub-culture. i've been on many different forums from Cars to Paintball, to games, to books and literature and trust me there's lots of people out there on those forums too spouting hate speech and homophobia, it's not just our little section of the internet.

viva la Gamer!

All the trouble in this world comes from things not being named what they are.

Not a direct quote, but Confucius said something similar. Couldn't agree more.

executive summary: 'Gamer', the term, will go when it's ready to go, which is inevitable, but temporally ambiguous.

I love ambiguity. It's what grad school is all about.

In other news, I have a bug up my ass about looking at people who ask me if I'm a gamer as if they asked me if I were a 'reader' or a 'tv watcher'. Yes. Obviously. Even if I worked at Starbucks and didn't own a TV, I would still watch moving pictures on a screen from time to time.

The dirty secret is that most people have been playing pictionary, Mah Jong, and poker in secret--in *hiding* for italic years.

I personally don't have a problem with the name gamer, I've called myself that many times. But I can see why someone would want to see that name removed. Take the name couch potato, we all know what it means and we all think of it as a negative. It's not used a whole lot but I see no way to turn that into a positive name. Couch potato is a bit more to the extreme end so taking one that may be closer to us, Goth. To some one that considers themselves a goth they see it as a positive name and are usually proud of it, but to those outside that culture they see it as a negative, and as a negative their useless to society regardless of the actual person. The Same thing seems to apply to gamer, and I don't think that's going to change any time soon.

@Cchrist:

It says "This is not a pipe."

Its funny how games that were considered casual back in the day are now considered hardcore.

Of course, I know plenty of RPGers, board-gamers and war-gamers who use the term "gamer" to exclusively define themselves. So too do some fair number of gamblers.

@ratix240sx: And vice versa, of course. That's what makes the whole "gamer" tag so sad -- it's people who play "modern" gameplay-bereft garbage that most tenaciously cling to the "gamer" label.

i love video games along with many other things but am i a gamer? it is at times a very exclusive group wich at times i find excludes me. at least thats what i feel as i go around the internet.

@brianewing:

Your skill in Common Sense has increased by 1 point.

@kelptocratic:

Both. There's undeniably a slight stigma associated with playing video games, but it's nowhere near as serious as some people make it out to be. I think the stereotype is largely self-perpetuated by "gamers" who talk about "gamer pride" and generally make the fact that they have a common hobby with other people into some sort of huge deal. I think Wilson hit it on the head with the "tuber" analogy:

Imagine, for example, how ridiculous it would be if all television watchers identified as their own "Tubers" subculture. It's a humorous hypothetical precisely because a vast majority of first-world citizens watch television, from the romantics who tune in for soap operas and sports fans who catch game highlights over breakfast, to the sci-fi fans addicted to the latest Joss Whedon serial and insomniacs who watch old gameshow reruns.

The very notion of the "gamer" implies that games are a niche hobby, only for the sufficiently devoted. This exclusivity is exactly what impedes games from attracting a more diverse player base beyond the white adolescent male stereotype.

I am not particularly found of the term gamer, however I understand why it is used. The reason I am not particularly found of the term gamer is, I have to admit, the community that rallies behind that term. You use the term gamer and you instantly identify yourself with the hordes of homophobic, sexist, and tempermental jerks that flood the internet (online play included). Here, at Kotaku, I believe (for the most part) there are intelligent and well spoken member of society who actively engage and care about a community that they respect and love. That is what I want to be identified with, educated and well mannered members of society. So, I propose that instead of identifying ourselves as gamers, we shall call our Kotakurs.

Wait... that kind of funny.
Nevermind!

I'm not a gamer. I'm an interactive entertainment jockey.

The problem isn't with people who use a simple term like "gamer" to help them identify with people who share a common interest in gaming and the surrounding culture.

The problem is people who make vast generalizations and stereotypes(ie: emag up there making generalizations about people who use the term) about what it means to be a "gamer" beyond someone who simply plays games somewhat regularly and is into the gaming culture more than the average person. Someone can call themselves a gamer while still having a diverse range of other interests.

Some people also assign a lot of negative connotation and stereotypes to musicians and athletes. Yet someone would be mocked if they suggest "using the terms musician and athlete is hurting music and sports, they should only say I make music, or I play sports". Because anyway who thinks all musicians and athletes are the same would be morons, just like anyone who thinks all gamers are the same is a moron.

@Babylonian: For sure, I agree. I for one enjoy screwing around on my consoles and PC, but I would be hard pressed to take "pride" in my "elite skills" or whatever. When it comes down to it, I can't help but feel that for the most part, one is only consuming an entertainment product like any other. Granted, there are some games which one may consider to transcend simple consumption (and I certainly have my picks), but it's pretty subjective. Don't get me wrong guys and gals, I enjoy gaming; but I also enjoy watching golf, driving my car fast on Highway 1, and This Old House. I would be making a great and absurd leap, however, to call myself a golfer, a racer, or a carpenter.

@brianewing: Couldn't agree more.

It is a culture, and as a culture it will have a label. Even if we reach a point where everyone games (believe me, out of our niche it's still not that widesprad just yet) then people will just identify with the genre they like most. The article is right that it's a cultural identification thing.

Anyone can opt out - I've skateboarded but I'm not a skater - the last time was years ago. I ride a bike year-round all over the place, so I guess I'm a cyclist even if I'm not fully decked out in the cycle shorts/helmet/bottle look. Those who play video games more seriously can be called gamers because it's a significant thing they do; it's no different.

I too agree hardcore/casual shouldn't be taken seriously though. I can see it picking a target audience for a game, but self-identifying with either seems too limited for me.

@kelptocratic: I think part of the reason is that if people really want games to be a respected artistic medium, the word gamers just sounds kinda dumb. If I enjoy books a lot, I don't go around identifying myself as a booker, or a reader. If I like movies I don't call myself a movier, etc...
Just kind of a pointless and dumb term to make oneself feel special or superior to those not "hardcore" enough as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks to everyone for their comments, and for what has (mostly) been constructive criticism.

I personally prefer not to call myself a gamer, due to elitist attitudes amongst gamer groups themselves. Reading various websites and forums reveals various attitudes like: "unless you have memorized all the Street Fighter 2 button combos/unless you agree that Ocarina of Time is the best Zelda game ever/unless you can complete Halo on Legendary with both hands tied behind your back while blindfolded, then you're not a real gamer." With various unknowable unwritten assumptions, I'd much rather call myself 'someone who likes to play video games'

and, for the record, I consider the original Zelda to be the best!

@fearing: I hear you man.

@rpatnode: Rene, good job on the article. Hope to see more of your writing on, or linked, here.

I think there needs to be a uniting of the "gamers." We need to unite under one flag and end this petty civil war we have going between system owners. I swear there wasn't this much hate and tension between Master system and NES owners back in the day, in fact I remember being happy that I owned one and my best friend the other...that way we could play games from BOTH systems.

DEATH TO FANBOISM!!!!!

Love games for games and tech for tech...not because a logo or brand name adorns the outside of it's case.

Console gamers just need to all drop their differences, admit that they're all inferior when compared to PC gamers.