He has a point. Not that I want to see an end of me being able to load my UT Maps onto PS3, but you can see where he is coming from.

I hope this does not mean Microsoft are backing off from Mods again.

And when they prove they can do it... what happens exactly that we should be overly afraid of?

They just dont want people cutting into their DLCs. ;D But yeah mods usally lead to a SEA of shit to wade through just to find a few gems. :x

"... and besides, it totally cuts into our profit margins, and therefore is bad."

I don't say this often but, Wilson wins.

Eh, I don't really agree with what he's saying. I like the fact that the power is in the hands of the people to create what they want without someone swooping in and controlling what they can and can't do. If I understand him right, he's obviously talking about someone hacking in and causing trouble for everyone or he could be talking about obscene content. Both of those things can be remedied though.

Sounds like they're just trying to say XNA is safe, and that Microsoft is the leader in safe mod technology. As we all know, Microsoft has no security flaws.

What the hell is he trying to do? Scare us into thinking that Sony shouldn't allow mods?

I'm sorry...but I've been downloading mods for my computer since DOOM...and guess what? I've never screwed my computer up with the Modifications...mostly because I acted smart about it...and didn't download anything that I didn't know other people were using...

@Tale: You? Nothing. They? Loss of revenue.

Yes, but Microsoft's "security measures" are absurd. They completely disallow user-created content. I think that probably takes it a little too far. It's no like you only have both ends up the spectrum, where you have to allow everything or nothing. There's some middle ground.

How many times does Epic have to bitch to Microsoft about this before it finally gets through to them? Look at all the PS3 UT3 mods. People even created a Master Chief and Marcus Fenix player model, ironically enough.

I can't believe mods have turned into part of the platform war. Witz is right, good ones are hard to fine, but I'm greatful to those that make the good ones.

A cat & mouse game that involves high risks to piss off a large group of fans and stall what may be the largest revolution in any form of media in the near future, possible due to the rising level of technological savyness of the public and the technologies itself. Example: printed books, regardles of the subject in them, where considered a trick of the devil. And the thought of the common man where he gets to form his own ideas through the dissemination of literacy? To the lords, it was blasphemy.

@sargemat: No he doesn't. This is simply MS whining about their attempts to control everything being undermined by other companies that aren't behaving in ways that are conducive to thier achieiving that goal.

Satchell: be silent, you slimeball suit.

It's really stupid. Microsoft just wants to try to justify their lack of mods for the 360.

if mods had to go through Epic first that could get rid of the "sea of shit" (as witzbold put it), and check for security vulnerabilities.

I think the real reason is the DLC as others seem to be picking up on as well.

Ok microsoft try first to fix your full price beta of vista and then make claims the we good
other bad...
Mods are welcome.

@Elderwulf: I think it's kind of the opposite, Microsoft has dealt with so many security flaws in their software that they are now paranoid.

He has a point, though ... all it takes is one mod that starts bricking consoles, and you've got a nightmare.

However, the worse nightmare is when a mod slips through with some Hot Coffee-type content and you get sued for something a user does.

Yeah the world is better without people testing their intelligence. Let´s turn ourselves into monkeys workin on cubicles instead. ...

Haha, anybody can use anything for the wrong reasons, there is no way around it. When something happens both good and bad are required parts of it. Get over it.

Just like it's inviting trouble to allow people to install non-microsoft programs on their computers.

Microsoft doesn't give a crap about security.

@Vecha: You're not seriously arguing that people that use consoles will be smart about what to download, are you? I mean, really? I mean, think about your typical console user ...

*shrugs* It appears to me to be one of those situations where the rewards so far exceed the risks. Especially considering how the risks could easily rectified.

Whether one supports it or not, people will attempt to do what your company supports or not. It is wise they are going to do a beta test on the XNA software.
Companies sink a lot of money into security measures and get nothing for it, except for lawsuit liability is gone when copyrighted material ends up on the platform.
You'd think from all the crap they include in EULA's they'd throw in that they aren't liable for any copyrighted material that ends up on their software, if ever.

It still is nice they are allowing it, even on a small scale. It does invite "trouble" but they may be able to make a few more bucks, which is their goal.

@Wyld: It's working out okay for me - all I do is putz around here.

I guess somebody from MS can't understand how other might actually have "the right security measures in place". Its a foreign concept to them. :)

bullplop - ms just wants to sell more maps and stuff to people, and all this free user generated content would rain on their parade. MS is a bunch of cry babies.

I don't understand, PC has been doing it for YEARS, notice he doesn't mention it. I mean literally years and as we all know Windows is the least secure platform out there. So now that Sony says here do what the PC guys do, MS steps up and says "YOU CAN"T DO THAT your giving away to much free stuff!" Come on.

MS System just can't handle it and their throwing a fit cause it would make their DLC look stupid.

@sargemat:They are just justifying charging for online play and DLC. I've tried almost every interesting mods on PS3 and they run just fine. When they started giving problems Epic was very quick to update the game for better mod support. PC have had it for years without problems. Besides, PSN is not the service that crahes every season... MS will always try to look for the negative in the freedom that Sony gives us.

Microsoft just wants to charge for everything. That's why I upgraded my computer instead of buying a 360 so I can play games with custom maps/gamemodes that the devlopers never thought about. Like various CS:S mods and this:

+ Watch video

@Witzbold: agreed. Not to mention it cuts down on creativity for those who want to do their own thing.

MS is just afraid anyone will cut into their draconian DLC market. @jayntampa: How can a mod brick your XB?

Well playing Gears for 6 hrs bricked my first XB so you cant blame a mod for bricking machine built like FIAT

He's got a face you kinda just want to punch and say.. what the fuck are you so happy about?

Let's keep the common sense train going. MS is afraid, they know they can't get away with their exploitation for long. That's what this statement represents.

No DLC unless it's free.

Its simple really. MS wont allow user created content until it because a big deal on PS3. Judging by sales and online use of UT3 on PS3 its still a non issue.

without user created mods we wouldn't have the large selection of great games we have today. It would be large scale application style mods that could screw your system. Most custom maps and the like will at worst just give your system a memory leak and have it crash.
Hell, the MS hardware failures have resulted in more bricked systems than any console related user mod in history.

wow good Analogy...
we have heard this kind of thing before from Microsoft...
- you can customize your xbox blades & dashboard but you have to buy customizations
- you can customize the way your box looks but you have to buy our face plates to do so
ect...
they don't want anything they cant control and make money on it seems cause the minute a xbox 360 "youtube" happens they are out money

Back to "us and them" again! When will people realise there is only one humanity.

Oh yeah, i'm sure XNA is real secure too. Hard to hack something that no one uses.

I read that little bit and all I heard was "OMFG WE WILL NEVAR EVAR ALLOW HOMEBREW ON 360, IF U LET USARS ACCESS THE HARDWAREZ THEY WILL PIRATE AND STEAL YOUR MONIES"

You know that's their only legitimate concern right? You think MS gives two dicks about your privacy or personal information? No - they just want to make sure you're paying for games.

@Volomon: All it takes is one bad MOD to royally f*ck some kid's system, and it will be all over kotaku. And MS will get flamed to hell, so if i were in there position, i would want to risk it either.

But they are being penny pinchers when it comes to legit DLC from the game developers.

To understand what he is saying you have to understand what XNA is.

To run a game on xna, it has to be written in a managed programming language, like C#. The main difference between managed and native code is the way you allocate memory. in managed code, you can just create an object, the runtime does all of the hard work. When you stop using it, the runtime discards it, cleans up the memory ready for use again.

In native code you have to allocate the memory and deallocate it yourself. you have to keep track of what your using, and clear up after yourself. This is alot harder to do, but you get lower level access to the memory.

So, what difference does this make to someone trying to hack the system to run pirate game, flash a hacked firmware, create a xbox bricking virus or even trying to steal live account info (passwords, credit card details, address, use all your ms points buying space giraffe). You would need to create some code to access the areas in memory relevant to your malicious goal. You cant do that in managed code.

XNA and .net guarantee that memory can only be allocated by the .net framework. unless you can find a bug in that, which is extremely unlikely theres no way in hell your going to get at that memory.

If they were to let any game devloper who wanted to let users mod there games, that means they have to give full trust to thoese devlopers to create something thats un breakable.

If you think of how most console are hacked, it down to bugs in games (for example, the legend of zelda hack for the wii). To let epic open un UT mods on the 360, they have to be sure theres no room for abuse. thats both malicious code and undesierable content. XNA has solutions for both of thoese things. UT probably dosnt.

I have been using MODS for all kinds of games for years now. I have never had any troubles besides a MOD just not working right. Microsoft just does want to compete with an open system like the PSN. MODS will prove to make the version of UT3 for PS3 superior to the one on 360(is it even out yet?)

Oh and another point. Who here likes Counter Strike? Yes? Well Counter Strike was a MOD. A serious one, but a MOD none the less. So who here really thinks that MODS will be trouble? Or will they open the doors for gamers(who also have programming/art skills) to make new and interesting content for other gamers?

I want MODS for other games like Oblivion. The MODS for Oblivion on PC kick ass. I would love for them to be available for the PS3 players. They add a lot of replayability to the game. So bring on the MODS I say. Forget the naysayers.

No Profits good....
Mods Bad...Etc Etc.

idk about you but what ever cause we all know HL, HL2 Died because of Crappy Mods.

@Raziel Dune: No Profits Bad*

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like video game developers and publishers are turning into total control freaks? They're becoming like the cell phone carriers.

@Witzbold: Even if there is a whole pile of bad games, that will be always the case with most platforms. I prefer having 2 or 3 good games(mods, indie) out of [big number here] than 0 games.

I suppose they want to say that DLC is the way to go and mods and such are bad or something. To me, it looks like a marketing thingy >o>

"Any platform that let's you do that - whether it's Sony, whether it's Nintendo, whether it's Apple"

...or Windows.

There are a lot of hacks made for PC games but hacking is nowhere near as widespread as a lot of people think it is - some people are just better than others so they get accused of hacking. I spent £10 on HL years ago, and I'm still getting gameplay out of it today - dod, cs, battlegrounds, zombie panic, brainbread, sven co-op - dozens of mods that have kept people playing the game and kept it interesting, all for free, for a whole decade. HL and probably PC gaming as a whole wouldn't be as popular as it was or still is today if it wasn't for mods.

What he's saying is that its not safe unless you pay money for it.

What I'm about to say is all hyperbole, but for Microsoft to get into the game of user created content it's only gonna take a couple of games with user created content to be a run away successes on other consoles (LBP *cough, cough, crosses fingers*) for Microsoft to realize the incredible potential user mods have and how they can reinvigorate sales of older games. Look at how many amazing mods have come out on the PC in the past 15 years for games, many of them refreshing entire genera's that were all but forgotten. Also it tends to be mods and smaller indie developers types that are willing to take game design chances that sometimes help push game design forward.

Microsoft will come around to the idea of user created content. XNA is a good start (I've really been enjoying creating a game with it), but greatly limits the number of people that can participate due to the technical knowledge needed to produce an XNA game. Game mods tend to be a "little" easier to get into, opening the door a bit more to a larger audience of creative people.

========================
**Tries really hard not to take the bait and go into a rant about Microsoft already bricking most of their xbox 360's from poor craftsmanship. (gone through 3 of them the past 9 months >.< )

@ HibikiRush -

That is why I like the relationship that Epic and Sony have. As in an OPEN one. That is just wonderful. :)

Who still makes virus's? Honestly? How many times do you have to be beat as a child to decide "Hey, i think i want to piss everyone off!"

by MrZ33 at 03:08 PM
Reply
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What he's saying is that its not safe unless you pay money for it.
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True that man!!!! ;) ROFL!!

Nice fear mongering. Something bad will happen! We don't know what, but something baaad.

If a game allows user content to do something like format the HDD or overheat the CPU then it's a pretty retarded game. I think it's MS feeling the constraints of their initial design choices (not having a HDD on all models) and wanting to support that. As well as a business model that has "charging for stuff other people give for free". They would have a hard time monetizing user mods so they just don't' allow them to keep as much of the money flowing their way as possible.

So Mr. Satchell, can we have mods in our UT3 version on 360? I'm guessing not. Shame, guess you prefer letting your competitors have the superior version of the game?

I don't think Mirosoft as a whole are ignorant. They know people want mod's. They just aren't willing to do the leg work in order to make sure its safe on their end.

@Elderwulf: This is true. Remeber the Titanic? Majestic, grand, unsinkable. MS security is just like that.....no wait! I just realized the movie Titantic was real! OMG the boat! OMG LEO!

Do you guys realize that via XNA (a free download) you can easily make user generated games and play them on your 360? I mean, that's the only system out there that lets you do that. You're talking about Microsoft stifling creativity, but they're the ones with both the most open-platform in terms of original content (as opposed to modification of existing content) and with the safest security.

I absolutely LOVE the user generated content in UT3 on pc and ps3, but that's the ONLY user generated content on the PS3, and people are jumping on it like its wholly prevalent on the system. Ever hear of N+? Yeah, user created levels on the 360 right now. Halo 3? Custom movies/game modes/level