Kotaku
I woke this morning to find Kotaku at a crossroads, one peopled with a mob. It seems there's a decision to be made: Do we want Kotaku to be represented by the chatter of a thousand voices, people trying to be heard over one another, many not stopping to think before they talk. Or do we want to cull the crowd, reduce the noise so our many intelligent readers can still be heard over the roar and those who speak take the time to think, to read before doing so.
It's disheartening to think that it has come to this, that unless we're talking about the relatively safe topics of consoles and their direct by-products there can't be intelligent discourse on Kotaku. And I don't understand how we've arrived here.
Commenting on this site has a short and interesting history. It wasn't allowed for more than a year and when it did come, after much pleading on my part, it came in the form of an invitation. You were invited to come into the site. This wasn't because we didn't want dissenters on the site, it was because we didn't want trolls here, inside with us. Because whether you believe me or not, commenters are as much a part of making Kotaku, what it is, as it's writers are, perhaps even more a part of that process.
Over time we opened the door more, allowing anyone to apply to be a commenter, something that I hoped would bring a wealth of new and interesting opinion into the site. But what it seems to have done is created not a chorus of thought and reason, but a mob mentality, a desire to post first, to speak loudest and to rarely read through the entire article or think about the topic at hand. It's created a cacophony of stupidity that drowns out our many well-reasoned readers and dilutes their intelligent discourse.
Race is a big issue. It's an issue that's right up there with religion and politics. People get angry, I get that, and of course you have the right to get angry. But what you don't have the right to do is to turn off your brain and turn up your mouth.
If you disagree with someone then disagree, but don't resort to calling names, don't use caps, don't generalize. Dissent with smart, thoughtful comments, create a dialog or go somewhere else, because frankly, you're embarrassing me.
Comments
*claps* Thank you.
HEAR HEAR!
Long live the Crecente
That picture says it all.
*firm handshake* Next barcade event that kotaku tower invades, I'll make sure to finally make it there, and I'll be buying you a beer in the name of open discourse.
To be fair Briann Kotaku still has a far less ratio of asshats to most other internet sites.
As for the race issue, I have to say that I found it worthwhile to wade through all the bullshit on that last thread to find the hidden gems of intelligent comments from the posters who made comments that caused me to think about the issue from a perspective other than my own.
Yes, what does annoy me is that so many seemed to be arguing about something that wasn't the point of the article in the first place, the issue of racism seems to make so many feel they are being accused and they react with a knee jerk defensiveness, that thread was chock full of that.
Now if we could have a system whereby you had to somehow prove you'd read the whole article before you were allowed to comment on it, that would be great, but I'm buggered if I know how you'd do that.
Unfortunately, the internet gives stupid people a chance to...well, act stupidly, and there isn't a good way around that.
That said, Kotaku's threads have always seemed much more civilized and laid-back to me than most other sites.
Huzzah. I'd considered suggesting something akin to this but 1) who would I even make such a request to and b) just who the hell do I think I am?
You do realize this is the internet, right? Idiocy is part of our culture.
Can't we all just get along and love the games?
wow, this seems like a problem on most sites where people can comment. I don't know the answer but it seems your on the right track. why cant we be friends, why cant we be friends...
whoa, is this...an avatar box thing? :O
Time to fire up the old ban hammer and let it T.C.B.
This article made me think, maybe more than what the author intended. Commenting on this site is essential. I love reading and going through the comments, because some are down-right hilarious. Perhaps this will inspire a new wave at Kotaku... maybe... just maybe...
You want to thin the herds?
Print an article that has one thing in the headline and then says something completely different in the other.
See how many people respond based solely on the headline and ban them.
"Dissent with smart, thoughtful comments, create a dialog or go somewhere else, because frankly, you're embarrassing me."
And not only that, I feel those who make such comments embarrass themselves, and the rest of us as well.
I try hard to avoid the more "trollish" areas of my interests (here, being gaming), and I personally find it embarrassing to see comments such as the ones alluded to in the post.
Especially when it comes to discussing Kotaku in a business/industry capacity.
After reading a big batch of comments this morning, I was thinking the same thing. It used to be a privilege to post on Kotaku, and I generally found that more people understood that, and posted more intelligently. Now, there's so much garbage and ignorance that I find myself not wanting to bother with the comments more often than not, unless it's something I feel I can add to. Even then, it's not uncommon to have my well thought out post either lost in a sea of crap, or flamed when my opinion differs.
I would rather see more people banned then have something put in place where the discussion of certain topics is not allowed. That just kills any point to allowing comments then. I think race is an issue that can cause people to go into a different state of mind and really lose their perspective in it. Hopefully everyone can learn from what happened.
Charge 2 bucks a month for commenting fees. Problem solved.
I'm a relatively new member to Kotaku, and I had no idea the history of this site had selected commenters.
Even then, this needed to be said.
Most definitely not to sound like a suck up here, but thank you for saying that and thank you for providing the SERVICE you do with Kotaku. It took me a while to be included as a commenter here on the site. I don't sound off on everything that is on here. Mainly because I would never get anything done at all. All that said it is nice to have a moderated community of people passionate about games and the culture that unavoidable nurtured from those games.
All I would like to add is that I implore that we all respect each other's unique opinions and, instead of belittling each other to justify our own opinions, we seek to understand why other people feel differently than ourselves.
Thanks again Crecente for providing us with this opportunity. I'm an aspiring level designer/technical artist and I'm so busy working on game design related things that this is all of the gaming I get nowadays.
N'Gai Croal deserves a personal apology from at least 500 different people. Literally. People leveled continuous personal insults at him instead of trying to argue against the many good points he made. It was very sad and disheartening to witness.
exactly. it should be all about gamers coming together and sharing opinions and knowledge for the purposes of furthering our gaming experiences.
there is nothing to be gained with name calling and poorly (or improperly) based opinions.
Banhammer time?
rabble rabble
I agree. Used to be a fairly regular commenter last year, but the surge of commenters that started occuring late last year has significantly decreased my desire to forth my thoughts.
Well, that and my full time job makes it hard to keep up! But still!
I've probably posted too quickly in the past once or twice and not thought out my post but In general I try to and I agree Crecente. It's best when the comments are relevant to the postings, not just a continuation of some long standing disagreement between a fan base of some franchise or particular console.
With that said being able to comment and voice my opinion of something I like about Kotaku and I'd hate to lose that privilege.
Just curious Brian,But why is there no Kotaku forum.
Brian, I know for the most part what you're alluding to, and I agree. While I feel there are many useless comments on this site, occasionally I enjoy the quick witty comment by the everyday poster.That being said, if you're going to ban people for ridiculous comments or for being first, go ahead. I will say that some topics almost guarantee even the most mature user to get upset or feel the need to post angrily, including such topics that are dealing with race, Jack Thompson, or mentioning apple products (joking, but people get so mad!). Anyway, I enjoy the site and enjoy reading the articles that the Kotaku staff writes, and I enjoy the great comments left by various users, even ol' Witzbold. Do what you must, and I'm glad you are bringing this up.
Well said, I got in to Kotaku when it was invite only and commented way more when it was so. I tend to just sit back and watch as it has degenerated into "just another blog" where the comments are like wading through pure toxic waste sometimes. I wish it could go back to that point, and as you said, the herd be culled. It was a happier Kotaku then.
Nice job addressing the issue Brian. Hopefully people will read this and think before they post something next time.
Like others have already said, it's really not that big of a deal on Kotaku when you compare it to other websites where you can't even make out what people saying 9/10 times. I don't post much but read a lot of the comments because they're interesting. Sadly though, you can't make everyone to be polite all the time unless you enforce a much more strict policy about commenting. Plus, it's sometimes amusing how people can 'argue' against eachother by coming up with lines that I never would've thought up. As long as the comments don't resort to internet leetspeak but proper grammar I don't really see a real problem. On a side note, I never really got the 1ST POST!! thing..
Well, let's see if I have been banned.
No? Cool. I'm bulletproof, baby.
Perhaps an inquisition is in order.
And more than just Witzbold stalking the Zone, so to speak.
Any news on the new XBOX (X4) or the ps4. Hear ye hear ye, the council has come forth!
It really is an interesting freedom to be able to say what you like and have it be read by so many people. Unfortunately, some people just take it too far by taking their daily aggression out on the boards or screaming for attention.
i have thought about this...i say we have republican government. we would have a "lower page" which would take a few clicks to get to and EVERYONE would be allowed to talk. then you would have groups which would be represented by a single individual. a group would have to be made up of at least 10 people. there would then be a main chat section in which only these reps could talk. you would choose your rep based on how much they say that u agree with, as well as how much you like (find it funny, intelligent, etc) what they say.
my two cents.
I wasn't here when the story was first posted but after going back and reading some of the comments, I feel abit disgusted with some of the people here. We have different opinions on certain topics but the way the conversation degraded almost from the first post, it's really disheartening.
So Thank you, Brian for bringing some attention to this. It really is embarrassing.
Know what the best lesson I ever learned about internet discussions?
When you see you've been mistaken or wrong, apologise immediately.
No need to grovel, just say that you were wrong and offer an apology, it doesn't cost anything, and believe me, people think so much more of you than they do when you argue a losing point for fifty posts.
brian rules
@Cruithne: i totally agree.
we are all aware that this is the internet and that idiots are everywhere. However, on the flip side there are also a ton of different blogs and forums within the game community. I come to Kotaku because I think (or I thought before that blog went up) that the majority of people that comment on here because they want to be a part of something that is beyond the usual name-calling knee jerk idiocracy that has put America where it is today.
Unfortunately, there is no real way to make people read an entire blog OR the originating link before they comment.
Kotaku needs a Robespierre
@LittlestLamshi: i'm going to say my prayers and take my vitamins in hope that you are right.
@Dopefish: No reason to promote or encourage it, or even to allow it if it can be prevented.
@Foggynotion: I think this was tried before somewhere, and it just became paying trolls and idiots. I think it was a forum though for premium users or some world news site.
Anyways, here's hoping for the best.
I love Kotaku and am happy to have been given the privelege to comment here. Even if my comments don't always contribute to the overall debate, I always try to be respectful and critical (thank 7 years of Quaker education for that). I think that's the best we can ask for from the commenters.
Now, UNLEASH THE BAN HAMMER!
I think in reference to last night's article regarding N'Gai's article, the post on Kotaku and other Gawker blogs are often all that the commenters read, myself included.
When you give the impression of the source within the post and the excerpts you chose, you are making a journalistic decision and we are trusting your judgment and therefore will run with the mood set by the post.
In my opinion, the post had already made its decision and wanted to evoke a feeling of decent toward N'Gai and that's what was feeding all of us commenters who did not read the entire article. So like you said Brian, it's equal parts Kotaku and equal parts commenters so why not take care to hide your leanings in the post if you don't want commenters to roll with it.
I find it sad that it was the thread vis-a-vis Mr Croal's article that resulted in this post and not the "Sleeping girl picture" incident. Which is, to me, the all time low for Kotaku.
Well spoken, thank you.
@spiderweb1986: While there may not be a way "around that", I find it comforting to believe that Kotaku is at least endeavoring to be aware and frown upon it.
As I said recently in another post:
[kotaku.com]
"I think there is a lot shared between the behaviors of piracy, anonymous insult, trolling and the like: it is the "I don't physically SEE the effects of my actions on the victim so I don't have to feel AS responsible" kind of attitude that tends to separate humanity into different levels to me.
To me, being able to see past the abstraction is part of what separates people into categories of quality. That you can't see the effects physically is all the MORE reason, not less, to be cognizant of your actions."
Though we may not have effective enforcements at our disposal to prevent errant behavior, acting like decent people should be encouraged, no matter how impossible a task it may seem.
I think this calls for a serious cull, turning the banhammer into a scythe would help.
Yech. Last night was horrible. No commenting fees please, kills off most of the people who are intelligent.
Very fitting picture. VERY fitting.
@TRT-X: hahaha that would probably work!