Viva la revolucion.

Obviously his widow, and her lawyers aren't Marxists.

People are only marxists until there's money to be made

Ayan Rand unavailable for comment.

It all depends on the tack they try to take. Look at what happened with all the publishers of Roleplaying "manuals". The rules themselves aren't subject to copyright, it's the overall IP/presentation of it that they own. That's why Wizards keeps putting out all those "New Editions!" of the D&D rules....that, and they're whores.

There's nothing absurd here. The creator was a Marxist, and his widow isn't. My grandfather was an alcoholic, and I'm not. That isn't to equate Marxist thought with alcoholism - Marxist thought is actually quite ingenious in many respects (work done in its name, however, has not been).

We'll see what happens in this case - is it curtains for digital Kriegspiel?

I think you mean, "Is it iron curtains for digital Kriegspiel?"

......I'll let myself out.

COMMUNISTS!

obligatory Marxist joke out of the way, is this game any good? the crazy chess thing?

@Reuptake:

Yep, Stalinism claimed to communist. Its not.

Maoism claimed to be communist. Its not.

Cuba came close, but its not.

The most communist person we've had is Trotsky.

@Communist_Gamer: That's a very valid point. Even the word "Marxist" has problems because so few people actually know what Marxist philosophy really is, and they instantly make the equation that Marxism = The Soviet Union. Nothing could be further from the truth.

@zoesch: That comment doesn't really apply since he's dead. Makes it seem like you just wanted to say something that sounded cool without much thought behind it ;P

The game seems cool though, but I'm too lazy to try it.

It seems that Guy Debord's family doesn't believe that intellectual property is theft.

@Reuptake: That's putting it very, very lightly.

@Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.:

Just so long as that is Anti-Stalin and Anti-Mao and not anti-communist, I'm happy.

@Reuptake:

Stalin and Mao were not true communists. Doesn't make communism any less stupid in its purest form. It just goes to show that even those who loved communism were smart enough to understand it wouldn't work for a month.

I am going to say one thing and one thing only:

"The rules of a game are a process, and processes can not be copyrighted."

Case closed.

@tzaketh: Actually Marx's entire point was that capitalism would be like feudalism. It would be the predominant form of economics for several centuries until it was abandoned in favor of, essentially, socialism. He advocated for revolution because he felt that we'd waste centuries on a flawed system and we should just skip it and save the time.

@Reuptake:

I never said anything about Marx's absurd theories about man's cycles. I didn't reference anything Marx has ever said. I simply pointed out that you're right to say that associating Mao and Stalin with Marxism is absurd. I then wanted to point out that the fact that Soviet Communism is not Marxism does not say anything about Marxism's actual validity.

Ahhh - I misunderstood your statement. Apologies.

Ahhh.. I wonder how long it'll be before the comments section erupts into a bashing of communism.

In my mind, Communism is the one, and only right system for everything. If you don't want it, you either think people are too stupid to handle it, or you don't understand what it is.

I don't think communism is that bad. It's just done by dumbasses, oy. Socialism could be considered Communism-lite. And I think France has those kinds of aspects yet prospers greatly.

from the inside cover of Society of the Spectacle: "No copyright/No rights reserved"

@Parsifal:
Not quite. They really are new editions. They have quite a bit of changes and everything.

The term "marxism" is very reductive when it comes to Gyu Debord and his comrades in the Situationist International. He was more an anarchist, and wanted to take the best from Marx and the anarchist Bakunin (and many others) to make a new radical philosophy for the modern era. One of his main ideas was that capitalism had expanded to such a degree that it was able to take our culture and even our most intimate desires and fantasies and sell them back to us as goods to be consumed. This commodified culture he called "the spectacle", as in the theatre. One of his strategies was to withdraw from and sabotage the media. The situationst would steal shamelessly from mainstream media and "detourn" it, i.e. change the media images slightly to turn it against the dominant spectacular society. Other revolutionaries where free to use their stuff, but the situationists (Guy Debords wife were one of them)would on the other hand fight any comercial use of their work. SO there is no irony in the fact that this old lady still wish to fight the spectacle.

Geez, way to alienate yourselves, estate of Guy Debord.

I'm honestly surprised this thread hasn't exploded into a flame war.

@otimus:

I don't like it, and it's because I don't believe all people are equal. Some people simply deserve more than others, and will always get more than others. Plus I don't like being taxed, and socialism certainly requires a lot of that.

I don't believe in being forced to help people, because then it's not help.

And honestly, I'm also very suprised this hasn't devolved into people calling eachother Commies and Fascists.

@Tye-The-Czar:

And anyone who says France prospers greatly hasn't opened a Newspaper in 20 years.

Wow, communist gamers unite.

Debord has an interesting legacy that is unfortunately marred by the collapse of the Situationist International after 1968. I wonder if his widow isn't simply upset that there would be a digital version of the game? Or has there already been one?

Wow, communist gamers unite.

Debord certainly has an interesting legacy, although it is marred when you consider the collapse of the Situationists after 1968. They were a small group that I consider interesting but not terribly important.

I wonder if his widow isn't simply against a digital version of the game? Can this really be about money??

@Blue_Six: Not exactly. Computer programs are arguably merely "processes", and they fall under the domain of copyright. Similarly, a game can be copyrighted. Even if the individual rules of the game can't be copyrighted, if its obvious that the digital game couldn't have arisen without its more traditional forbear, its a derivative work and subject to infringement.

@Yin: His wife (The person who is suing on behalf of the state) used to be Marxist (She wrote The Princess of Jargon which is part of the Situationist International publications... yes I took a course during college, shoot me, it's actually quite interesting stuff even if it's mostly misguided)... and one of the major criticisms of Debord is that for a Marxist he had absolutely no problems accepting money from the bourgeoisie to finance his books and movies.

Sounds to me like you tried to sound cool without researching facts first :P

@zoesch: XD
Well, I'm sorry. But you could have given that information in your post and saved me some face :P
And still, not nice to generalize all marxists like that. I'm sure there's some who is more adamant in their beliefs ;)

@Yin: Not a problem since no offense taken earlier.

You can actually generalize about it, because people always make the mistake of taking political philosophy as an absolute truth, which it isn't. That's why I'm a Discordianist :P

Gezzz... people sould stop making games/mods about other people work. You can use the gameplay, but use a different settings:
Example:
- Warcraft 1 is a clone of Dune 2, with orc's and elves.
That way, you don't get sued.

Wait... the estate of a communist. Is suing a man. Over private intellectual property rights.

Wow.

In Marxist France game sues you!

...yeah I'll get my coat

@zoesch: So he was a bad Marxist and his widow's a worse one.

I vaguely remember the game... my older brother had it. Plain ol' chess was more favored, though.