rather, I don't think the exclusive and/or militant mindset of some people will go away if a label or term is suddenly ditched.

I tend to agree - a rose by any other name, etc.

ok.....

The term isn't the problem, it's the stereotype behind it. Let's not treat the symptoms while ignoring a cure.

Has this anything to do with CAD?....Just asking....

A I kind of agree...you don't see movie conissuers going to every movie called moviers....the term gamer can be latched onto any headline when a crime by a youth is commited so I'd like to see that term go aswell

Gamer.

"more political consciousness , less misogyny" , well that leave out the PS3 and 360...

I actually think that the refinement and personal association to Internet age subcultures is a very healthy thing for young people....

its a bad thing when you think about how damned exclusive they are.

I have to disagree. A lot of people take their cars to the track and spend some time racing and having fun. But it doesn't make them real race "drivers". I think you need a certain devotion to games in order to be called a full-fledged gamer.

@ZetaCrossfire: Your wrote that onl to be first, don't even try.

we need "gamers" to demand real games over wii mini games.

@Candlejack: I hope to god it doesn't, CAD is a load of rubbish, and thats the bottom line cause Yathzee said so!

HOW HE DARES!!
blasphemy!

prepare for the gaming inquisition!!

Meh. I like my hobby to be niche. Wii and DS are pushing gaming into mainstream acceptance, and what's it getting us? Waggle ports, half-assed party games, and training games that.. aren't even games. So much for a wider selection of ideas.

I think the vast majority of people who actually visit gaming news websites are into the hobby BECAUSE it's niche and quirky, I know I am. And that applies to a lot of hobbies, not just gaming, I think.

I don't really care if Steven Spielberg is making games, or whatever the hell Nicole Kidman is endorsing.. I want my my obscure Japanese high school mecha zombie dating sims.

eh im not to keen to the word, but i dont mind the idea of the "gaming subculture"

I prefer the term "Video-Interactualist"

Its not really the fault of the "gamer" community as it is the fault of language and social behavior. Some people run but they dont call themselves runners. You may swim occasionally without calling yourself a swimmer. Groups defined by hobbies or interests naturally happen.

The real issue is what the word gamer entails. The ingroup qualifications may require some standards in order to qualify oneself as that group. Someone may be reticent about calling themselves a runner because it entails a level of expertise, experience, and training. I wont call myself a runner because perhaps another runner may challenge my "runner" credentials; making me feel less confident about the running I actually do. The same can be said for the term "gamer". If I say I am a gamer and I have mastered TF2 (I have actually by the way) then someone will challenge me on it call me a n00b and be on their way.

Gamer though also entails outgroup responses that other groups dont have. If I say Im a runner someone else might be impressed, the ladies might swoon, or someone may ask for advice. Doubtful the same type of response will come if you call yourself a gamer.

@excel_excel: Exactly ;)

so... "skateboarder" "surfer" "skier" and the like all need to go aswell? it is a descriptive title, and that is all.

there's nothing wrong with the term "gamer."
if we got rid of it, something else would take its place, whether it be "gaming enthusiast" or "player of electronic media."
besides the fact that those just sound, well, dumb, I really don't see how "gamer" alienates anyone. it's a word, people, used to describe people who play games!
now the whole "hardcore/softcore" thing...that's little different.

I guess we can't call people 'golfer' or any other sports term either.

I'm not a gamer, I'm part of the new movement, a DIC.
Digitally, Interactive, Cohorts!

@madhotch: Wii minigames are games. Redefining 'gamers' as one PARTICULAR type of gamer would make the situation above quite a bit worse, as it's even less inclusive than the term currently is.

We should just all just be call "Supreme Commanders of the Universe". It's fitting and definitely more interesting than just a plain gamer.

@cornunderscore2x: Look the PS2, in europe at least, was mainstream before the Wii, meaning the devs who made shit PS2 games not worth the time of one second when it became really popular were instantly able to hop on the next bandwagon of making shit games for a console with run away popularity.
Niche and quirky are only one aspect of the gaming coin, Halo 3 could hardly be described as niche and quirky, and I don't mean that in a bad way

@cornunderscore2x: Wow Totally True!

Have you notived that the race for the White House is becoming more and more akin to movie earnings. "This weekend Hillary Clinton took in 109 million. Obama was second with 53 million. Newcomers Nim's Island and Leatherheads took in 10 million and 6 million respectively"

Oh...wait a second. This isn't the New York Times. I'm sorry gamers. I did not intend to intermeddle with the likes of societal recluse. I dare say if I wasn't too busy playing FFXII, I might have noticed my error.

Looks liken the term "gamer" definately doesn't stop the huge mass of casuals waving remotes to move stylized tennis rackets (or even worse in trashy party games like WarioWare: Smooth Moves). So why should the term "gamer" go? To make the casuals feel all fuzzy inside? :D

I honestly agree with the statement that "gamer" has a distinctly negative connotation outside of the "gaming" community.

Game Enthusiast?

Player?

I wonder why GameStop's new motto is "power to the players" instead of "power to the gamers". Sounds like they are trying to be more inclusive.

Finally, somebody sees it. I like music and films as well, and I've never been called a CDer or a Filmer. If people ask me; "are your a gamer?", I don't know what to say because what is a gamer? People see gamers as old subcultures, like hippies and punkers. But we do not have anything in common, except of the fact that we play videogames.

But on the other hand, maybe games are still a niche and are to be treated as such.

I am Gamer, You are Gamer. They are not Gamer.

I absolutley hate this term,and never use it,at least not to describe myself. Games should be a medium,not a genre. Despite most of the Mountain Dew crowd on here bitching,Cooking Mama,Nintendogs,Trigger Heart Excellia,and Xenosaga are all games. So as a "gamer" do I like all those things?
Get rid of "t3h gam3rz" and you get rid of the bullshit "Mario Party/Rayman/Sims/Bewjewled isn't a REAL game,REAL games are about bloom and headshots" bullshit that's so pervasive.
I love video games,but I hate gamers.

Eh, well if we don't use gamer, what do we use? Its the only word that sounds right.

@Abriael:

You're a perfect example of what I was just saying. WarioWare is "trashy"? It's a great series that does well citically AND commercially. Unfortunately it doesn't fall in a preset genre so to a certain subset of people it's a HURRRRR NON GAME KIDDIE!!!!
Star Wars fans don't call Shallow Hal a NON MOVIE because it's a comedy,there are different genres of movies. Why can't the same hold true for games.
My friends and I have played Wario Ware and DoDonPachi in the same day,the same way I sometimes watch the news and the Simpsons in the same day. Of course,I'm not a hardc0re televisioner like some 1337 people are. If I was,then I would hate casual shows.

@Abriael: WarioWare: Smooth Moves is not a trashy party game. Don't put it in with the same catergory as the other shit party games

I love his assessment of the gaming community. I think he hits in the nail right on the head and anyone who has spent 2 minutes in a internet gaming forum will know.

I also completely agree with his comments on the Mass Effect 'controversy'.

@kidnicky: you sir are a saint and I will follow you to the ends of the earth (i.e. you just gained anotha' follower)

@gamer4250:
Electronic Superheroes.

I think anyone who plays video games is a gamer.

I would never apply the word "gamer" to myself. I play video games all the time, and they're one of the few things I have going on in my life, but I'd still never say it. It sounds lame, and I am just a regular person who just happens to enjoy video games. "Gamer" could be used as a stereotype, and nobody likes to be stereotyped. But I still agree to having the need for the word because I enjoy hardcore games, but that is, again, another generalization. I don't know where I'm going with this. I'm sure there are, or will be another posts just like mine but in further detail.

'Opening games to, well, everybody can only result in a wider selection of genres and ideas.'

if by that he means dumbed down fodder he's absolutely right. when was it gamers decided games becoming mainstream would be a good thing?

Dude, it's just a fucking game.

@kidnicky:

If waving a remote in random pattern is your idea of game, then by all means suit yourself. Just as I'll suit myself at defining it absolute trash totally devoid of any depth based on a franchise that retains the charisma of a shovel, no better than the ton of shovelware that unfortunately crowds the wii's title lineup, even more unfortunately choking the few gems like No more heroes and very few others, that don't sell well due to the fact that Nintendo marketed their console mainly to non-gamers.

@kidnicky:

I'll tell you why.

Because "Games" as we know them were created and driven by people with a deep understanding of their potential as tools to express ideas and allow a user to manipulate an environment in a way real life doesn't allow.

The more the public accepts them, the more companies see dollar signs, and the less deep they become. 90% of games now (A statistic backed up by absolutely no evidence :D ) are just shelf decoration.

@kidnicky: I agree, but I also believe we need to keep the term in order to instill video games as a genre. Here's why:

Films - term with a more "intellectual" connotation.
Movies - moving pictures, does not carry the same connotation.

In the film industry, there are "movies" that have no practical "high art" value. The same can be said for games. But we can all list MANY games that do have this high art value (fuck you, Ebert,) in the sense that video games seem to ever change the definition of high art.

So just like "moviegoers," we have gamers. And gamers are those that aren't actively enjoying the artful games. Without the "gamer" term, we don't have the differentiation of game players, that respect the industry as a medium, and have respect for all games, but truly cherish the deserving few.

The basic gist is that the video game industry parallels other industries, and deserves to be treated as such.

just about one of the stupidest things I have heard in a wile.

I love computers and every thing about them. Devoting lots of time and money into building, upgrading, tweaking, etc. them which basically makes me a PC enthusiast, I don't care if everyone and there dog has one that does not make them PC enthusiasts. Just like even if everyone and there dog has a Console system that does not make them gamers, A gamer is like a treky, you can like the star trek shows and movies but that does not make you a treky. A treky is someone who LOVES star trek, is immersed in its lore and on occasion dresses like a moron for the love of it, just as a gamer is some one who LOVES games, is immersed in them and on occasion talks like a moron for the love of them...that and each of them can talk you ear off for a month about them if you even slightly mention the subject =P

"Opening games to, well, everybody can only result in a wider selection of genres and ideas."

Or, a general dumbing down of games so they can appeal to the new lowest common denominator, as has been happening for years as games became more mainstream.

I'm not some sort of elitist, and it's still a good thing that more people can get into games, but that doesn't mean I need to be ecstatic about developers trying to appeal to the new guys and alienating us hardcore players.

What an egocentric dick.

It's hilarious to see someone act so high and mighty and claim to sumarize all "gamers" with broad, sweeping generalizations. Not only that, but he doesn't know a shit about what he's talking about.

Because games are already mainstream, there have been tons of games (and pretty much an entire console) dedicated to a wider audience of gamers (not "gamers" in the sense that he describes. The problem is that these games appeal to the lowest common denominator of gamers which in turn alienates what the audience he calls "gamers".

Meh. What a douche.

I just hope videogames don't end up like comic books. Comic books were pushed out of the mainstream pop culture for really fucked up industry practices and an obnoxious fanbase (which is an incredible feat by the standards of any entertainment industry). Unless something changes, either in public perception or internally, videogames are headed straight in that direction as well.

The difference between a gamer and a non-gamer, is that a gamer plays with games, a non-gamer plays with toys. The ones who would like to see the term "gamer" disappear are the same that would like to see the games replaced by toys to appeal to the lowest commomn denominator.

He makes some great points, but I think he's still treating the symptoms rather than the cause. This "gamer" stereotype is only true because - hell - that's just what a lot of gamers are: Immature, misogynistic, and politically-mindless. Of course, I say "a lot" and not "most", cuz I think they are a minority amongst gamers - albeit a very vocal and visible minority. Only time can change such people.

So how do we shut these people up? Overwhelm them. Make it clear that they're a minority. But we hardcore gamers - the rest of us - can't do it alone. We need the help of non-gamers to fix this. We need more games about subject matter that more people can relate to, so we drastically change the demographic make-up of the gaming consumer. (Goldwin's Law alert!) Most of Germany didn't really believe in the Nazi ideology, but that wasn't enough to fix things.

Most games these days are post-apocalyptic shooters, fantasy RPGs, etc. etc. And I realize that to us gamers, most of these games are actually quite diverse in some not-so-subtle ways. But that's preaching to the choir. To the average non-gamer, all these games look the same, and they don't find them appealing at all.

Nintendo has taken the lead with Wii Sports. But that's just one avenue. There's so much other stuff games can do. Why are there no games about life as a stock trader, like "Boiler Room"? And don't tell me that wouldn't be fun, because it doesn't matter. It may not be fun to us, the hardcore gamers, but that's OK. We're covered - there will be no shortage of hardcore games any time soon. We need more games that we would never care to play.

We need more Deer Hunters. Seriously. Any developer who will put away their hardcore gaming egos and make a game that non-gamers will enjoy stands to make some easy yet well-deserved money. And stands to help fix the stereotype of the "gamer" by bringing in more reasonable people (by "more" I mean as in numbers. I don't mean that non-gamers are more reasonable than gamers) to the past-time/hobby.

In conclusion, we need Deer Hunter Wii.

This is ridiculous. It's just a term, and removing the label doesn't change it's definition. Being a gamer these days is such a broad notion that it could describe any number of people. And where the hell is this "white young male stereotype"? Seriousley, when I'm on Live I hear all kinds of people. There's never bee a "oh hey, Live is full of white guys" moment for me. I'm not saying it's racist to try and label the majority of gamers, I just think that even if "white males" make up a large portion, all other demographics are nipping at their heals.

Anyway, the way I look at it is saying you're a "gamer" is the equivelant of saying you're a movie buff. No one says they're a watcher, reader, or sportsman for seeing movies, reading some novels, or jogging/biking occasionally. With video games in a "socially ifantile" stage, anyone who picks up this new thing will describe themselves as a gamer, but there's no one saying "Im a video game buff."

College frat boys who only play Halo and Gears, someone whose addicted to Sims and Wii tennis exclusively: they're not "gamers" to me in the sense that they don't thave the depth or breadth of experience to label themselves as someone who frequently plays los of types of games. I think you really need to make that destinction because you get into trouble when you look at "gamers" who are really just some dudes who think the most recent hyped up shooter is the shit, and start judgeing the rest of the crowd based off of them.

Basically to truly call yourself a gamer, I think you should look at it like "I'm a video game buff, because I love video games and I play them so much it's a hobby." I will never be offended if someone says I'm "not a film buff" or "not an athelete" because I just don't do either of those things often enough to start labeling myself as such. Everyone has a couple of favorite movies, everyone has a particular book they like, but you'd never say that movies or novels are exclusively your hobbies (unles they actually were). Likewise, I don't think anyone should be offended if, having limited gaming experience, the so-called "hardcore" of us don't consider them gamers.

@DeBurgo: Doubt it, the gaming base is way too diverse compared to the comic book fanbase.

I see nothing wrong with the term gamer, but we should have more terms, not less. Unfortunately at this point, the terms "hardcore" and "casual" are meaningless because they are so subjective. I think that we should move towards having terms to describe the different aspects of game loving.

Contrary to what excel_excel wrote, I would say that there are several terms used to describe people with interest in movies and films:

Filmie-This is an insider term used to describe film students at film school.
Cinephile/cinemaphile-A term for someone who follows films academically. This is someone who would argue for films as high art.
Film Lover-Someone who is interested in indie and mainstream films. Probably wouldn't go to a film festival, but would love to see something on the Sundance channel, the Independent Film Channel, or at the local arthouse theatre. They would also like a lot of mainstream films, like Brokeback Mountain and There Will Be Blood.
Movie Buff-Someone who takes an interest in movies as a hobby, knowing all of the trivia about mainstream movies, but not really into indies.
Movie Goer-Someone who goes to see lots of movies, but mainly mainstream films in the comedy and action genres.

The same goes for books (bibliophiles, book lovers, avid readers, etc.) and music (concert goer, indie music lover, musicologist, music critic, etc.), so why not games. Gamer may be too general, but right now it is the best term that we have.