Forget to add "sand in various crevices" :)

While I agree that Xbox Live arcade games are mostly crappy, I've downloaded a lot of them and not regretted paying for them. However, after downloading the demo for N+, I must say, they are only contributing to the crap. They have no right saying what's crap and what isn't, when they made total crap themselves. Crap.

I know they aren't insulting Cyberball.

Why is it that whenever anyone says almost anything (even if it is true) someone manages to make a big deal about it.

Shit-Talk-E-Mushrooms
honestly first thing that comes to mind

Yeah, there are alot of crappy games on XBLA, I just wish they weren't stuck on my achievements list forever when I didn't even buy them.

super stardust HD.....crap?

these guys are on crack. N+ doesn't even look fun. could be wrong, i guess. but' it looks awful and boring.

jumping off the play "boring" Super Stardust....

N is so good I don't care what these guys say.

"Wait a second. Just read that they think Super Stardust HD is "pretty crap." Fuck these guys and their stupid jumping game!"

Hahahahahah

lol, at the end of the article they dis New Super Mario Bros., Halo, and say they "can't afford a PS3."

You work off the shitstorm but NOT STIRRING IT, guys. You don't need to name more things you don't approve to make company for disapprovals of the past.

The comment by Len Bias Cocaine Surplus who's confident enough about the quality of Cyberball2072 to not feel the need to counteract Metanet's argument, makes me think that if people are reacting this bad to something spoken frankly and mostly true is because deep inside them, they know Metanet are right.

I like a bunch of the offerings on XBL, but I have to agree. Most of the stuff on there sucks ass.
I mean, honestly, can anyone look me in the eye and say that "Wing Commander" is anything but total fail?

@Insomnia Bob: I could, but then I'm a moderately entertaining liar who wouldn't even know what you were talking about.

Word of advice to backpeddlers - don't make snide remarks about something new when you're apologizing for your previous word choice.

Lately XBLA has been sucking, but there are quite a few decent titles on there.

I think were all in agreement, theres a metric ton of shit on the xbox live arcade, not to mention the countless rehashes of old games on it too, nobodies denying that...
but jeez since when has N+ been gods gift to downloadable gaming??

*shrug*

Don't care. Didn't like N+, so I dunno what their quality control includes. What do they expect, though? AAA titles with each release?

Every game must receive a 9.0 or above to be on Live?

Are we forced to buy the games or something?

I dunno. Sounds like self servicing whining like that Jonathan Blow guy.

Every system has crappy games. I don't have an Xbox360, so I have no opinion on this, but since N is awesome, I agree.

I didn't like N+ but i could see that it was a well constructed and though out game.

They are right about XBLA tho, it sucks...a lot. I can see what's happened, Microsoft thought it would be a little sidline "for the fans" project, with no real money being activly made, most of that would come from downloadable content, instead XBLA is the money spinner thus MS are trying to squeze out the cash cow that XBLA has become.

In doing so big companies are being green lit with awful games - see Capcom's last two games. While in some cases they bring us old classics, admitedly, I, like the developers of N+ were hoping for a more Indi slant. It's a pitty but in this case money rules the roost, not quality.

I own a PS3 and i'd have to agree that Super Stardust is pretty crap.

I'm going to get lynched, I know it.

What doesn't appeal to some might to others. However devs should not talk such crap in their position. Personal views are fine but Metanet should not of commented like they did. Why devs slag off games is beyond me. Your fight isn't with each other, it's with us, the gamers. The people that decide if we should part with money for what you think is entertainment.

Lol, backtracking is always fun.

:p

I played the flash version a long time ago... kinda boring. There was no music from what I remember.

Pussies like these can't stick to their guns? What jokers. I would totally not buy N if it wasn't so awesome.

/Hopefully you be able to find the irony and forgive me.

I played the N+ demo, and I've gotta say... I don't think they're helping the ratio.

I love this schizophrenia about this:
1. "Live Arcade is full of crap! Microsoft should not let these games onto the service!"
2. "Microsoft should let anyone publish anything onto Live Marketplace! They're just a bunch of facists trying to control the content on their own system! Hentai MODs for UTIII!"

"The guys at Metanet are begging the internet to stop, they want to get off. After comments from a Game Developers Conference interview with Gamasutra made their way online, comments that slammed the crap, shit and liquid feces clogging the plumbing that is Xbox Live Arcade, people got various things bunched up, rubbed raw and in a tizzy."

Put this block in your portfolio for future demonstration of your writing chops.

I played the N+ demo, didnt like it too much. Some friends were telling me to get it for the coop, and BAM I'm regretting it that I hadn't bought the game a little sooner.

Also, some of you need to differentiate between total crap and niche games. Triggerheart Exelica isn't going to appeal to non-shooter fans, but with insane achievements and such hardcore scrolling shooters can probably get a whole lot of kick out of it. Likewise, unless you can get a kick out of repeating patterns for hours till you get that perfect routine in N+ probably will be of no fun.

Not to say that I don't agree with their view that a lot of the XBLA titles are crap. If I didn't see people around me playing some of those titles, I'd probably never have bothered to try them out.

This is just a retarded marketing ploy to try and spur sales / drum up interest, good or bad, with their non-selling game. Until the XBLA has a shittier quality to crap ratio than the Wii, I don't think anyone gets to complain about it.

Omega Five, Rez, Castelvania SotN, Puzzle Quest, bunch of random old school games, like TMNT, SF2, etc with online and upcoming stuff like Ikaruga validate the XBLA in my eyes.

The PSN is looking to be on the same track as the XBLA and I couldnt be happier. I play more XBLA games longer than my 'retail' games.

Is there shit? Ya, but I'm not out buying Crusin' Wii or Spider-Man 3 for any consoles. Why would I buy the crap on the XBLA either?

XBLA arcade has Castlevania SON, Geometry Wars, Rez, Alien Hominid, Puzzle Quest and and expansion coming soon, a good Texas Hold Em game, Hexic 1 and 2, multiplayer Doom, Worms, Carcasonne, TMNT Arcade, and on and on.

Sure there's some shit. There's also some classic games on there.

If they want to talk shit about XBLA, they should talk shit about the retarded DRM licensing.

@Dioxen: PREPARE AN EPHAGY!BURN THIS HEATHEN!

Yeah i loved super stardust though i guess its not for everyone

Hahah great last sentence.

For some reason Puzzle Quest, Rez HD, and Carcasonne which I got for free were such positive experiences for me that I associate the four letters "XBLA" with good feelings. Maybe I just feel like that because I didn't have to fork over hard cash in bill form, so the experience of playing those games felt much more gratifying. Who knows?

Seriously, those XBLA games must've been forced down they're throat...

XBLA games are NOT COMPULSARY! Some crap games exist because somepeople love them purely for fanboyism or nostalgia. If you think the game's crap, then simply it was not released for YOU.

Furthermore, thats why "TRIAL VERSION" exists.

@whiptcracker, KirbyMorph: Yeah but you can get a bunch of those games from other places, and they're not new games from up-and-coming designers, they're effectively cash-grabs. That creates a clogged market.

@MCWHAMMER:

Agreed; I wasn't impressed with N+ when I tried it out on my cousin's 360, and thank gawd I didn't bite into the hype and made it an impulse buy.

If the N+ guys want less shit on XBLA then how come they put N+ on XBLA? Isn't that counterproductive to what they want?

I just don't think muslinging is the answer. So what if you think most of them are crap (they are) i understand consumers complaining but i don't need to hear this from someone a little too far in to be allowed an open opinion about it. As a developer they shouldn't be slagging off games they have nothing to do with, instead they should be making BETTER GAMES (than n+ :P)

We're "back in retail-land" where crap outnumbers quality.

The XboxLive Arcade is a retail service. Why should it be any different??

The problem is not Xboxlive, or retail, or even gamers... it's capitalism.

Think about it for a minute... the best game ever made came out of communist Russia, so what does that tell you???

Yea I wasn't to crazy over N+ either and to be honest there is a fair few poo games on XBLA (such as Bliss Island which sucked hairy nuts!) but there are also a fair few kick ass games which some of the guys above me talked about ya gotta take the good with the bad......and bliss island!

"As gamers it was unbelievably depressing for us to try literally 80 games and enjoy less than 8 of them"

Well, yeah, but the point is that you could try all 80 of them for free and only buy the ones you enjoyed. Which is more than you can say for retail. And the ones you do enjoy are a tenth of the price of retail games (in the UK anyway).

Shouldn't they be happy if they think their competition is crap? Wouldn't that give them a better chance of standing out if they have a good game?

I don't necessarily think that they meant that the games are all boring as much as there are a bunch that are uninspired rip offs of other games or games that don't seem as though they had much time and effort put into them. Also, after looking at XBox's XBLA site, since when is Doom the original FPS? I do believe Wolfenstein and the Catacomb series's were both out before Doom and were FPS.

This is foolish bullshit: I can pull at least 30 games that have been fondly referenced by this site and more by the commenters. This is simply another case about people willing to generalize due to their own laziness.

The N+ developers don't like many XBLA games is about the most sound conclusion I can gleam of their statement. That's ok; that's their opinion. As developers though, speaking through that forum, to the work of other developers crap, and even going as far to imply that other's work should be culled out so quality (their work) can shine is a sad commentary; I just cant agree with that.

I do feel they have a valid point about their needing to be a better way to sort and/or present things... thats important and let's just say if one followed the evolution of XBLA, you'd see this was happening. Is it happening quick enough, maybe not. The whole argument still wreaks of unjustified shit talk which he admitted to due to some business dealings and that makes this argument uglier. Sad commentary for professionalism indeed.

O_o .. in what world would make sense that XboxLiveArcade had more good games than retail?.... it's supposed to be small/indy/cheap ..

Bunch of developers complain because microsoft retains too much control and demands somewhat high standards.. now these complain they are too low .. err.. what?

Get down from your delusional idealistic cloud indy devs..

N+ is godly.

@jcsunshine: "other places" like where? emulators? roms? crappy online flash games? arcane game stores that sell 20 year old consoles & games?

or did you mean namco arcade classics v featuring awesome titles like phozon, warp & warp, super world stadium '95, blastoff, assault & galaga!

to me, that's a cash grab. i'm glad i can finally buy galaga without a load of suckass games that i don't care about. my only complaint is there aren't enough classics on there. where's my strikers 1945? sub hunt? bubble bobble? raiden fighters? arkanoid? rampart?

@Ludwig: That would be in Microsoft's world - the indie cheap thing is more their XNA program anyway. As for the indie stuff, it should be good indie stuff. They're complaining more about Microsoft's control issue anyway - in terms of quality control, they're less annoyed about having to meet Microsoft's level of quality and more annoyed about how Microsoft lets donkey carts full of shit games get through to the service.

For everybody saying there's gobs and gobs of good games on Live Arcade, I believe the issue is this:

1) Count the games you really like.

2) Do not count any retro games unless they've been heavily modified. Pac-Man CE is heavily modified. TMNT is not. It's great that Live is like an old-school arcade with all the retro titles, but these are all old experiences we buy to relive - not new content to explore.

3) Now compare this number to the total number of Xbox Live games out, and you'll understand their grievances with the huge amount of crap titles and barely any good ones. Don't like N+? Fine. Their argument still stands.

Oh yeah, I love the shit out of Super Star Strike HD. (Stardust's name in Asia)

There's no reason to assume that even in XBLA were "indie only" with no casual or publisher games, that most of the games wouldn't suck anyway. It isn't like every game starts out awesome and then is destroyed by some soulless publishing process... some games are just bad, and that goes TRIPLE for experimental games (a lot of "experiments" fail).

N+, like any game, people are going to like or not. It's a certain style of puzzle/precise player and I love it. Some wont and that's fine.

However, it was a very well thought out game, very deep and has lots of proper features like replays, easy to use leaderboards, etc. All the things the games these guys chastize don't.

Kudos to them though I have to admit, at least most of these crappy games have demos so you can try before you buy.

I think theres a large difference between putting out a "good" title and a "nitch" title among all the crap on XBLA. I for one wont be buying N+, on the bases that 1.) I can play it in my browser, and 2.) because even then, I didn't think it was that interesting.

Another thing you have to consider is that 90% of the "shit" xbox live arcade consist mainly of classic arcade remakes. Games that have house hold names. Games that I could mention by name, to my parents, and they would know what im talking about. People will pay for that, even if its a bad port.

I thought the game was ok, I wouldn't buy it though..

I'm really getting tired of hearing people say dumb shit in an interview and then when shit blows up they go "Oh, what I really meant was..."

Act like professionals and not internet fanboys, and you won't have to worry about being misquoted or whatever.

And yes, I agree, there is a lot of shit on XBL.