Kotaku
I'm hanging out at Volition in a cozy darkened side room, waiting for their presentation on Saint's Row 2 to begin. Producer Greg Donovan (right) is with me and we sit there a bit awkwardly, waiting for the game's Lead Designer, James Tsai (left), to join us.
It's not Donovan's fault that things are weird. Someone has painstakingly setup a small table filled with various drinks and snacks that, as Donovan explains, "aren't there everyday."
Things are weird because I have an absurd headache on top of an even more absurd head cold making me a complete bitch to talk to. Donovan breaks the silence again.
"I saw you ran that quote." What quote? Oh, right, where he said that Saint's Row 2 would have bugs.
"Yeah, the internet just went crazy on that one," I respond.
"95% of gamers aren't even going to come across them," he assured me.
Tsai arrived moments later, and we loaded up Saint's Row 2. Donovan had to be at least a little relieved.
Saint's Row 2 takes place an unspecified number of years after Saint's Row 1 (though ironically, the development of Saint's Row 2 began with a small team of people before Saint's Row 1 was even out).
Your friends have betrayed you, and you'll have to start building the Saints from scratch. Tsai explains, "The player comes back, he's pissed, and he does some nasty things...you are definitely a criminal this time around."
Unfortunately, you choose to wear purple once again.
Starting with the character creation screen, I immediately see that SR1's robust character customization engine has gotten some major upgrades. To start, your model looks better, a Calvin Cline underwear ad adorning shader-chiseled muscles.
While players will still not be able to face map with the LIVE camera, the seemingly endless sliders should make up for it. I particularly enjoyed watching models be subjected to the age slider. Let's just say moobs become moooobs.
Apparently Lead Designer Tsai is a huge fan of wrestling games. And the influence is undeniable as you look through various animations that you can now assign your character. Everything from the style of gait to combat techniques, players will find more movements unlocked as they play. But the animations are a lot more than just a bonus for completion—they really signify SR2.
Open up the taunts, for instance. Your character can flip someone the bird. They can do the famous throat cut. Or, in a turn to the absurd, they can squat down on someone and gesture defecation complete with butt waggling.
Donovan explains, "We gave up any pretense of being authentically hip hop."
Everything is streamlined for fun. While SR2 will feature a compelling story with a near feature-length set of cut scenes, players can make the choice constantly to have a serious or outright zany experience. Create a hard-nosed gangster or create a computer geek with a pot belly. No one's gonna judge you.
They take me through the example mission and I see one of the new area expansions to the game's 1.5x larger city. You are in a dusty, almost wild west world. It's a trailer park, and you're here to blow it up. Running into one of the 130 new internal environments, you grab some satchel charges (essentially sticky grenades that can be remotely detonated).
Heading around outside, Tsai dropped bombs in dramatic sequence, blowing up trailers one after another. He spoiled an otherwise impressive street of open world AI and animation at its finest, in which I'd seen a jogger tie their shoe, a power walker anally strut past, an old man hobbling slowly and one guy lounged out on a beach chair (who I was assured would get up and go about his day if we'd watched him long enough.)
But Tsai wasn't content with spoiling a good day. He's played the mission before. So he opts to throw a satchel charge onto a jogger instead of the next trailer. It seems like a normal enough decision as it sticks to the side of her head like a lopsided cubic afro. Then he throws another and another. Now the jogger is having a tough time jogging. Finally, Tsai steps back and blows her up with a massive explosion. She shoots 50 feet into the air...then he hits the trigger again...and again, "juggling" the innocent in mid air.
I could act mature about the situation now, but I chuckled.
The neat thing about this sort of debauchery is that Saint's Row 2 will reward you for it. Called "diversions," these mini achievements are built for fucking around and will earn you "respect" that's usable in the storyline. "Chances are, if you try it, it's been done," Donovan assures me, meaning that the game will acknowledge any feat you throw at it. And it's an idea that's long overdue in a genre in which gameplay so often...digresses.
But what I didn't get a chance to see was the game's co-op. The full campaign supports two players ala Crackdown. Oh, and those "diversions" we talked about above? They will include co-op combos, as well as the rare moment when you might actually try to harm your friend in crime with a submachine gun.
"It will be a lot of fun," said Tsai. "In Crackdown, players sort of had this static objectives...in SR2 our missions are a lot more complex, we're actually forcing more interaction."
I ask him why we've seen co-op games explode in the last few years.
Tsai laughs and lets me in on his personal theory. "All the guys like you and me who grew up playing...Contra, Ikari Warriors, Jackal...have disposable income." He's probably right.
After talking to Donovan and Tsai and seeing the game, those still bent on fueling some war between GTAIV and Saint's Row 2 need to realize something...in what is maybe the crudest analogy I've ever put to print.
Rockstar is like Hugh Hefner. They create a product that hides behind (what is often) a facade of high artistic vision. Volition is more like Larry Flynt, not shying away from what they purport the audience is really looking for—the gynecologically precise experience of juggling a woman in mid-air with properly timed sticky bomb explosions—fulfilling your deepest id impulses, spread eagle on your monitor.
"They're gonna do what they're gonna do," Donovan said. "That's actually a good thing for players."
Comments
This game looks like it's going to be great. But this close to GTA4? Let's hope stuff like its Co-op will be a feature that sells it for those still hungry for a sandbox fix after we're all done with Nico.
Bravo. To me, this is going to be the game I get. GTA will have to stay on the shelf.
In before loads of haters and GTA taint suckers. Lots of em.
I dig the colorful, cartoon vibe. Feels more like a videogame than GTA4.
I can't wait to play this game. I have to take issue with your GTA analogy though. I don't think Rockstar has ever tried to be artistic or pretentious about what GTA is, the fans have but Rockstar themselves have not. IMHO.
Just hope there is less slow down and a MP mode that is worth playing.
GTA IV has hit SR out the park with its MP features, hope SR will pack some form of punch :D
Will your character actually be talking in this one or will it be just another mute?
Only Gordon canull that one off in my book.
Hmm...that dude looks like a kid stuck in the 80's. Oh and that girl's arm there, is longer than her legs probably...geez. I don't know...don't think I'll be picking this up...another gta ripoff.
I love me some GTA and I'll be right there in front getting IV when it comes out but I still love playing Saint's Row for simply goofing off.
Some knock the gameplay and the glitches but there is no finer Rocket Launcher mechanic/explosion out there today. Insanely fun for "fucking around" as Tsai echoed in the new version and I have no doubt that I'll do plenty of that in SR2.
I didn't really catch onto Saints Row 1 (call it just a lack of time and other games to play, it just really didn't grab me), but from what I'm hearing so far (not much, I know) of Saints Row 2, this could be a pretty damn good game.
I'll have GTAIV to keep me company for a long while, but as long as this game comes out at least half-way decent, I'll probably bite and go ahead and buy it. Make it good Volition, and you've got yourselves a day-one sale! =D
I think the two will have very different vibes, and the Hefner-Flynt analogy loosely fits. You're getting a semi-serious crime drama in GTA IV and you're getting a merry-go-lucky derivative in SR2.
Saint's Row was one of the most shameless rip offs in recent video game history, but it did a good job of what it aimed to do and I'd say it even had an engaging story line. I'm sure SR2 will deliver, but just in a different way than GTA IV.
That said, I'm getting both.
Never really been a huge fan of sandbox games, and the only one that ever caught my interest was Crackdown.
Looking forward to this game as much as GTA 4, but what the HELL is wrong with the arms of that woman in the first pic?
We have to thank Saints Row for pushing GTA IV to be a better game. We all benefit from compitition.
And as great as SR2 is going to be (and the co-op alone will make it awesome). GTA IV will own it's world!
But when GTA IV is finally getting old, SR2 will be ready to roll.
I hope for their sake they polish this until at least x-mas.
Definitely gonna pick this up (along with GTA). SR may be in the same genre as GTA but it's a completely different game. I found elements I liked and disliked in both titles.
@nxp3: Looks like something you'll be able to do in the create-a-character..
I highly doubt the models are going to be anatomically incorrect..unless of course you make them that way when customizing..
...might want to not just nitpick to find a reason to rag on it..just throwing in out there..
I still think the characters (in the poster in the first pic and the screenshot) look like faux thugs from a 90s MTV made for TV movie.
@JerrD74: hates the media: Gah, someone keeps switching my keys..should be "it" out there, obviously
@Parabolee: I like how they seem to be trying to draw more similarities to Crackdown than GTA this time around.
Yes, Saint's Row was a ripoff, but it was a AAA-quality ripoff. I'm looking forward to this just as much as GTA4, especially after reading this.
@Kum0: I disagree b/c from what I understand GTA IV only has 1 mission for co-op gameplay. This game has full co-op. That's what I want for multiplayer from this type of game. Those other modes that GTA stacked on are things I'd rather do in COD4 or H3. This is one thing that SR2 got right and GTA IV didn't.
I can't really fit it into my head that they're allowing female characters. Either they have no grasp of the culture they're glorifying whatsoever, or the principle function of the female characters will be missions where you find all sorts of new and interesting places to have sex (voluntarily or otherwise. Probably otherwise.)
so... I wonder how it will control, some GTA clones were cool like Scarface The World is Yours, but for some reason, Saints Row was kinda off, maybe the sequel might fix that
Co-op sandbox game? Sold.
Crackdown was amazing as a co-op sandbox and Saint's Row was a fun, albeit cheesey game. If they keep the world just as open for two as Crackdown, include all that customization, keep the same old driving, shooting, and physics....it should be a blast to play.
Meh,
I'll get both.
I never played the first Saints Row outside of the demo but its hard to pass up co-op. If it plays well count me in.
Just give me the Insurance Fraud cheat again, and I'll be happy. Ragdoll Parkour FTW.
Sandbox open world games are my 2nd favorite style of games, 1st being FPS.
Add Co-op to it and i'm sold no matter what!
Saints Row was and still is real fun, I can't wait for the #2!
When i stick a satchel charge to a jogger and blow it, I dont want
a: her to fly 50 feet in the air - I want her body parts to fly 50 feet in every direction. The fact the body just sort of ragdolls and flies off sucks.
b: the other charges to blow at the same time giving me a chance to create a mega bomb... not a bunch of tiny little bombs.
Whats the point of a trailer park full of AI going about their business if even satchel charges just sort of make them fly away. For all I know she'll land a few blocks away and just keep on jogging.
First game to give me a truck full of empty boxes (with fast food logos on them) which I can then place decaptitated heads into and deliver to unsuspecting people wins the decade.
This might actually give GTA4 a run for it's money if it lives up to all that this says it will be. Why? Because it is looking more and more like it will be a step up from GTA4 before GTA4 has even been released. Something it has to be to simply survive.
Even if it is just 'on par' with GTA4, it will be a failure. The Hype of GTA is simply too great. It's already labeled as a 'clone' and a bad product of a clone is a death sentence.
I liked SR1 a lot, I will get this for sure. And GTA4, but then again I was a fan of Contra, and now I have a disposable income. I hate being a Market Segment.
So i'm assuming SR1 was worth getting? Because it's a seriously old game now and it still retails for full price over here.
Is it me, or is Tsai wearing a Gizmondo shirt? That alone gives me a sinking feeling...
I shall be purchasing both.
@Moonshadow101: Are you aware of the fact that the female character that you are creating is just a "de-manned" version of your character from the first game?
@Moonshadow101: If you were to actually read the article, you'd find that they mentioned how they were giving up "any pretense of being authentically hip hop".... which I assume means that now you can be a female and not be treated like garbage.
What a concept in games, huh?
That last quote in the article our-rockstars Rockstar by a mile. I'm starting to get tempted byt the GTA hype, though I've never really gotten into one of them. But I liked Saints quite a bit. Maybe I'll wait and get that, cuz I don't need both.
Plus then I won't get sucked into $$$$$$ of GTA DLC on 360.
@exo: Dude, you are disturbed...don't be surprise when the feds come knocking on your door.
@Moonshadow101:
ah yes, stereotypes ftw, because the same way hiphop culture degrades women, gamers all drink mountain dew and curse like there's no tomorrow whilst playing halo on live .....
There already was a girl with a "positive" role in the first Saints Row. She got killed, though. Still.
I don't know about making the game less serious and the character decidedly criminal; I liked the tone of the first Saints Row. I somewhat liked the message it gave. I guess in a way they're trying to follow the path of the real-life crips, where a group that started out as a response to increasing gang violence in their neighborhood ended up just as bad as what they were at first trying to prevent.
Is it just me, or does that developer guy look like Alan Thicke?
Gotta give props to my hommies in Champaign! Volition rulez!
(Actually it really a matter of pride that Volition's HQ rests on the site of what used to be an eyesore in my hometown of Champaign Urbana Illinois. Sure the U of Illinois cranks out a staggering number of top notch CS geeks, but to a gamer like me its nice to see a AAA dev house sprout less than a mile from the house I grew up in)
This game souns like it'll be a good time.
A different beast then GTA4, no doubt.
There is, already no point in comparing them.
"Whats the point of a trailer park full of AI going about their business if even satchel charges just sort of make them fly away. For all I know she'll land a few blocks away and just keep on jogging."
That would be hilarious. This being a videogame, and all, I would kind of like something like that. Especially if you could stick a camera to them and film it all.
And having the person end up 9 miles away, and resume jogging, would be way more entertaining then a corpse.
Comeon, the point is to have fun. You cant spell Funny without fun.
Besides, that kind of dark comedy is what Postal III is comming out for.
If they wait for a few months after GTA IV is released, once people start getting sick of it, then they'll do fine business.
Personally, I could play a GTA game for at least two years on-and-off before it starts to get old. I was playing San Andreas from its release date until about a year ago, when my disc stopped working. So I have no need for Saint's Row 2. Although, if there is full co-op, then it will definitely be worth a rental.
This and GTA are going to be amazing!
I talk sh!† about this game, but i'll buy it. I hope they have a target lock-on system, though.
I dont mind SR, tho as you can see from my ava im a huge GTA fan. I just dont like how they try and make a crime game when its more saturated and uhhh for lack of a better word gay as SEGA game.
@Guizzy: She didn't get killed, she just got temporarily inconvenienced.
You can get her as a zombie henchman later on. She rolls in a custom hearse and uses her arm as a club.
@Adzz: definitely lacking a better word there...
@Adzz:
Saint's Row is DEFIANTLY better than any other crime game* out there...why you ask? It's fun.
*Besides GTA...
@octoSink:
The first didn't have one...and GTA 4 isn't having one...I doubt this one will.
Sounds sweet. I'm more interested in GTA4's realism, but this is sounding awesome, too.
@Vecha: GTA4 does have a lock-on sytem. Hold the left trigger all the way down, and it locks on, like in Crackdown. Hold it halfway, and you can move the reticule around, like in Saint's Row 1. At least, that's the impression I've gotten from reading about it.
@InsidiousTuna: You are spewing BS. There is no lock-on system in Saints Row 1.
If it's sandbox-style goofing off, then consider it copped. Along with GTA4.
Hmmm, I'm so getting both! Why choose?!
"...open world AI and animation at its finest."
Alright, there's gonna be great AI.
"So he opts to throw a satchel charge onto a jogger instead of the next trailer. It seems like a normal enough decision as it sticks to the side of her head like a lopsided cubic afro. Then he throws another and another. Now the jogger is having a tough time jogging."
What kind of great AI lets someone throw a ton of explosives on it and keep trying to jog?
Now that V has gotten through the growing pains of a new genre for them (open world) and the tech/art process transition to "next gen" it looks like this game is going
to be as good or better than anything else out there that they compete with.
I especially like the "diversions" aspect of the game.