Maybe the Japenese govt should work on fixing its OWN CORRUPTION before trying to tell its people what to do first.

Not only in Japanese porn you can find porn with school uniforms (although they are more infamous for that). They should crackdown Comiket if they wanna ban child porn in doujinshi works.

Seems to me like a good intentioned waste of effort. There surely are more effective and smart ways of stop child abuse.

Maybe it's just me but I think real Child porn is a bigger issue than "virtual" stuff.

I can't count the number of times I've been on 2chan (A japanese image board), seeing loads of hentai and various anime pictures and then out of no where there is some little girl tied to a bed with her clothes ripped in very disturbing ways. It's something you never get used to and just plain makes you feel sick for a few hours.

Maybe if they cracked down on the real stuff and not worry about a few comics, the joke in my social circle for 2chan wouldn't be "sooner or later you'll see naked children" on every board on 2chan.

Oh and they used to have a "moe" board, which was basically 3 pages (about 6 images of each) with child porn on it. They removed the board, but it was up for a LONG time.

@Witzbold: how is this any different that the rest of the world? Government the word is basically defined as "how to be hypocritical."

I've always frowned upon the mixed message that shcool girl manga porn gives. Bottom line, sex and sexual imagery with school girls is wrong.

AMEN

aw god no I better still get my lolicon and shota fix

that may have been a helpful step about twenty years ago, but things are too out of hand for a schoolgirl outfit ban to have any real effect. if they want to get to the heart of it, a lot more needs to be done, and a lot more seriously. for starters, i would think they'd want to look at the whole u-13 idol ordeal in all its grey area glory.

Man, seems kind of asinine. It's not like two consenting adults have ever purchased an outfit like that for sexy purposes. Though maybe the stigma in japan is different than the 'catholic schoolgirl' deal in the US.

Seems like going after actual child porn would be more useful.

If it is not sailor uniforms, they could always think of other stuff like the one piece blue swimsuit, the sports-use mini pants, or even the kendo uniform.

*P.S. dont ask how i came to know of those*

In Japan, it is illegal to produce, sell or distribute child pornography. However, it is not illegal to own child pornography. There is no law against "simple possession." And, yes, I am talking about real child pornography and not just anime/manga stuff.

The Japanese government is, thankfully, working to implement a law to change that.

Maybe UNICEF is going a little too far asking that sailor uniforms be banned and we could get into a philosophical argument about whether or not manga children having sex should count as child porn, but, as a teacher, I can say that UNICEF is right that the Japanese government's efforts are coming up short.

@Witzbold: I don't think there is a government on either hemisphere that isn't "corrupt" in any way (Maybe the Swiss but i'm sure there is something wrong there too lol.)

@onidavin: ... and lot more difficult.

I don't think it is a waste of effort. Of course there are efforts to crack down on real child abuse, but the laissez-faire attitude towards the sexualization of children needs to be stopped to - that extended to the whole "moe" thing too.

@Falconfire: Over here you would be surpised at how much more BLATANT they are with fucking things up in terms of the publics money.

A big part of it is how the average Japanese citizen doesnt do anything to complain about it either.

Where as in the US they will be at the door of the folks with torches and pitchforks.

You really wouldnt understand unless you lived here.

That and the rest of the world doesnt really fucking matter to me since Im not paying taxes to "the rest of the world". Im paying taxes within Japan. Granted I still pay US taxes also.

Im finding it amusing though that Unicef is going after this sorta thing. Even more so is trying to get the Japanese govt to seriously do something about it is even more hilarious since we all know pretty much nothing will come of this asides from wasted time. Far too much $$$ in this kinda shit for them to really persue it. You might as well ask the govt to try to ban smoking too while you are at it for sky high wishes.

@Jesse in Japan: It just aint with these types of issues the govt comes up short.

@thaKingRocka: You sir are correct.

No point in banning fake school girls when the real stuff is out there. We haven't even gotten to the "dates with school girls for cash" thing that Japan has. I don't remember the exact term for it though at this momment.

@Witzbold: Well it is about "wagging the dogs tail" if you will. Although the original saying was about starting a war to divert attention from bad administrations. Try to come out as "ethical" on something small to divert attention from something bigger.

Oldest trick in the book (*cough* religion *cough*).

As I said above, what use is banning fake school girls when the real thing is still parading around?

Big ass tease + no outlet = big ass explosion

@uzivatel: We have a winner! Why go for the hard target when a symbolic one will placate people?

For everyone who thinks that chasing virtual pedo porn won't be a waste of effort and won't slow down chasing the real pedo porn.

Italian law says that
whoever consciously obtains or holds porn material made using people being less than 18, shall serve up to three years in jail and pay a fine of at least 1549 euro.
If the material is in big quantity, penalty is raised up to two thirds.
All of the above applies also when the porn material is made by using virtual images of people being less than of 18 or parts of them.
Virtual images are deemed to be those in which a graphic processing has been used, not related in part or as a whole to a real situation, but in which the final quality makes look as real situations that are not"

Think what the effect of this law might be and then hope that a law like this never crosses our borders: here it is causing havoc already, since the police is busy chasing owners of manga while they should be chasing real pedo porn.

Politicians => Press photos
Duke Nukem Forever => Screenshots

@Witzbold: Nice way to start off the comments, Witz. I smell a hint, nay, a tinge of a troll... ;)

When kids come to trick or treat for UNICEF, I'll be sure to give them virtual money. Hey, it's the same thing, right?

so wait, virtual child porn? as in, not really but looks like it? oh and school girl outfits have nothing to do with pedophilic desires. They just look damn sexy on your woman.

Unicef: "We are looking at you, Bioware. If we so much as get a glimpse of a Sailor Suit unlockable, we shall crush you with our mighty Gundams {made in Japan}."

@chaos242: Its called the fucking truth. Since I for one am jaded to hell about the shit thats pulled here which they get away with. Even more so when taxes and such are through the fucking roof.

Seriously you folks back home in the US got it good, since you dont get nearly as badly nickle and dimed as you do here.

My friend and I talk about this countries politics all the time, since he knows a lot more he can give me details on all the wonderful events that have happened over time. Its beyond depressing let me tell you.

@AstrayPenguin: I with you 100%. I think the punishment should be stiff for any sick bastard that who harms a defenseless kid, but at least anime and manga aren't real kids. There are billions of people out there, and I prefer they have a virtual outlet for their fantasies (Grand Theft Auto, etc) than trying the real thing.

Don't get me started on UNICEF. I know people don't read much anymore with the advent of the TV, but I have seen too many accidents involving UNICEF ending in the deaths of third world children on our dime. After accidentally giving kids diseases from vaccines or killing kids with "bad baby formula", they now want to tell people in other countries how to think? We're better of using our money or time and reaching out to kids ourselves or using smaller organizations with better track records and less corruption.

There real events like what happened in Jersey (UK) with boarding schools having child sex and torture rooms along with mass graves AND NO ONE BEING APPREHENDED happening around the world. Companies that are known to have child sex and slavery rings getting US government contracts. Don't get me started on the abuse many kids are suffering at the hands of "child protective services".

[www.timesonline.co.uk]

not happening
japanese are not stupid to kill money printing machine.
and that's for the best i think.

@peacefuloutrage: Its the usual finger wagging we see going on quite a lot these days. :x

@Witzbold: This mirrors the U.K. complacency has set in to the "democracy" that we have here. The government gets away with murder and no one gives a shit. The consensus believe that even if there was a change in leadership, it wouldn't make any difference. It's sad.

Where I live age of consent for heterosexuals is fourteen, and every year the Unicef manginas and lesbians cry that's terrible and it should be raised to 18. Unicef is nothing else but a manhating feminist organization. In the article, Unicef states that it wants to outlaw ageplay, that is people who are over 18 but pretend to be younger. For example, a porno where women in their early twenties dress up as HS schoolgirls (most men are atttracted to Highschoolgirls)would be ilegal. Also, manga and anime, whhere characters appear that are underage in sexual poses would be outlawed. So all of you guys who example own the Ranma Anime would be guilty of the posesion of child pornography, because Shampoo, Akane and Ranma (all are supposed to be 16) show of their naked breasts. Currently, in most countries only the utilization of real minors in pornigraphy is a crime, and Unicef wants to include age play and fictional characters which appear younger. I say let's all send the feminist bitches and rumpriding conservatives to hell, because most normal young men do like teen girls.

I'd be more concerned about actual child porn; you know, where an actual child is harmed by it than a simple drawing or thought in someone's head that doesn't actually harm anyone. Virtual child porn is something I find disgusting myself, but so do fetishes among other things I don't like. It's not up to another person to tell you what you should like or consume though. This is a waste of effort and money, especially when it doesn't take away the effect of actual children being harmed by porn. Taking away virtual porn does nothing beneficial, it just gives a false hope of security that no one gets their fix of their lolicon fantasies. You also anger people who like to see women in School girl uniforms.

I find Unicef's logo disturbing.

@Gannon: Honestly, when you talk like that nobody will talk you seriously. Yelling about 'feminist bitches' and 'lesbians' just makes you sound like a bigot.

Eliminate virtual child pornography and you'll have real child pornography, or alternatively, virtual child pornography in the disguise of virtual midget pornography.

Deal with the real stuff, banning made up things is bad, imho.
It's like banning certain things to be written.

The pen may be mightier than the sword, but should the pen really ever be banned from being used?
Sounds uncivilized if you ask me.

maybe if the adult business wasn't run by the Yakuza and had more government involvement, shit like this wouldn't be so bad. What they need to do is have federal standards applied to safety regulations and age verification. Limit the involvement to an official stamp thats required for retail after safety and age requirements are met and then you've just separated the bad porn from the good porn.

sorry for the rant I work in porn

I'm very conflicted here...

...it's a state of double-standards. Most certainly, real life pedophiles should be chopped up and fed to the dogs, and I'd be there with the hatchet, and ditto for pedophilic material going into the bonfire cooking the remains (I'm sorry, I know this is sort of graphic. But for me, this is truly hatred =/).

Yet, I can't help but admit that maybe shota/loli might not be under the same category...but I'm only doubting myself because I can't help but admit that at one point in my life, I read shota just the same as I read yaoi. Once i got the pedophilia connection, I stopped, but I can't say I didn't enjoy it.

The thing is, if we're disgusted by say, virtual rape, which we feel justified because it's such a violent crime that shouldn't be carried out even virtually (I'm speaking from knowing the general opinions of my peers, so you might not agree), there's absolutely no reason not to view virtual statutory rape with any less condemnation. In fact, it SHOULD be worse.

The thing is we should consider the minds behind the creation of such virtual child pornography. There's shota and there's loli, which can be more or less described as one being dominantly created by and for females, and the latter by and for males.

I know that to females, shota is regarded as an extension of the yaoi genre. Specifically, it is often depicted with two or more boys of the same age (the easiest example that comes to mind is Digimon yaoi, where the main characters young and of the same age but and are paired up). The times when it does portray an older man, it's often less for the fact that they want to put in a child, but more that they want to put in a 'pretty boy'. The age of the boy himself is not usually the tantalizing bit, but this is just my own opinion on shota.

Loli I think, it's much more clearly seen as actual child porngraphy. The reason being it's not an extension of yuri (which usually seem to portray more mature women). It's heterosexual, and with older men, which are clearly using the whole idea of pedophilia as the central draw.

And then, you have the 'grey' areas. I'm not sure how many of you have heard of this manga/anime called Kodomo no Jikan, which can only be described as an anime where a student (about 10 years old) is sexually harassing her older teacher.

Now this seems to be the typical fuel for some sort of loli hentai. The thing is, this series was created by a woman, and the reason the anime/manga is not regarded as hentai or smut is because it tries to show something about child sexuality - Which in the context of Japan doesn't seem that unreal of the main characters.

So, is this child pornography? Or is it a statement on child pornography and child sexuality? Personally, I think of the series in the same vein as I regard Lolita. It's a study, and it's a portrayal. Not saying anything about the issue is worse than being frank about it.

Finally though, I believe there are certain ethics that can't be argued. The moment you start giving allowances is when cracks start to appear, and it's a detriment to everyone involved. I say, let them pass the law, because eventually it's going to anyway. The law is just there to be a statement, and I don't think it's a statement that should be argued lest the worse happens, and I'm just that much willing to restrict 'creative freedom' in the name of protecting the children that should inherit it.

@Byakko:

I would like to clarify, the student in Kodomo no Jikan is A GIRL, and the teacher is a man of TWENTY. Also, I haven't actually watched the anime nor read the manga, but I do know the controversy currently surrounding it and it's actual content.

"When they came for the Sailor Outfits, I was silent, because I wasn't into Sailor Outfits;
When they came for the S&M, I was silent, because I was not a S&M'ist;
When they came for the less than heterosexual, I did not protest, because I was not less than heterosexual;
When they came for the Police uniform fetichists, I did not protest, because I was not a Police uniform fetichist;
When they came for me, there was no one left to protest on my behalf."

This is garbage, they are trying to impose the same puritan Christian "Abstentinence only, missionary position only, for the sake of having babies only" pseudomorality on everyone under the guise of protecting the defenseless. "Won't somebody think of the children" comes to mind.

Here in Canada we get random people with Manga arrested because the proper authorities didn't think that a virtual character in a work of art looked old enough (We took the states bit and ran with it further making drawings deemed underage "child porn" even though the age of consent is 16 (Was 14 until March this year).

Regardless of how savoury the art in in question might be to individual tastes, pseudomoral organizations deeming what is fit to be made or expressed as art sets a dangerous precedent. If they can ban Sailor outfit manga because in some fantasy of them it translates to real world actions (rape in Japan per capita is way lower than in America), what stops the next group from coming around and banning the Gta's Mercenaries and Manhunts. There are all sorts of things that people find distasteful and would ban if given the chance.

Fortunately, you know, we punish people for going out and murdering others, not reading books, or playing games about it. Same goes for art.

IF they want to truly make a difference, they should go after the actual children abusers, the underage porn rings, you know, the people that actually do this stuff in real life and actually harm others.

But I guess banning the word fuck and depictions thereof is easier. Turn in next week when we see how Banning alcohol and drugs helped make the world a better place and humanity imploded when the tap was opened.

Also, someone should get around to telling them that Japanese porn is censored.

@onidavin: calling them feminists is actually nothing but the truth. My current gf is 16 and I´m in my twenties, and if these Unicef guys had their way I couldn't have this relationship or would be threatened by jail. I also despise them because they want to label my Takahashi manga collection as childpornography, just becasue some 15 or 16 year old fictional character shows off her breast. And teen girls are not children, As long as the Unicef doesn't make the clear distinction between children and teens over 14 I won't support them. But I know that most Americans are fine with jailing 20 year old men for having 16 and 17 year old gfs, just like that Eliot Spitzer hypocrit.

Asking the Japanese not to fixate on schoolgirls is like.....well, asking Americans not to fixate on schoolgirls. (albeit in different uniforms)

Not happening. It's the God-given right of individuals to fixate on schoolgirls. Man that sounds wrong.

I remember a friend from Australia asking me if I knew where he could find a Japanese schoogirl uniform for his wife.

Tall socks never did it for me. I likes'em with no socks. No clothes also helps. Women of course. Not schoolgirls. There's something to be said about experience.

So they're trying to ban lolicon and sailor uniforms in doujins. Doesn't that also violate a right or something.

I like to see how this turns out

@Seiryuu:

UNICEF are a bunch of idiots, just about as bad as Amnesty International around here, but I would like to think of the issue of child pornography as a global issue rather than a UNICEF one (though I guess, that's the thing being discussed here so I'm the one off tangent =/)

But I don't think the 'freedom of art' defense is at all suitable. I'm an artist, I get frustrated by censorship, I get frustrated by society's limitations, I dislike the way the world is around me regarding what is and isn't commercially viable.

But I don't forget that I'm not any better than the person who does buy my art, I don't forget that my nation is small and it's people are too many on too little a space. I don't forget that there are other people who suffer, and most of them are much much worse off than me.

The freedom of choice is not anarchy, it's the freedom to choose both our actions and our boundaries. I choose to restrict what I depict, I choose to make a statement by not condoning it. What should I be belittled for protecting children or for standing up for what is inherently right? How is the person who 'dares to be daring' a better person than me?

To say the ones who choose to make a statement, whether it be the government or society, as the antithesis of freedom is inherently a flawed argument. They are voicing their own choice, just as their opponents voice their own choice. The result of there choices have consequences, and because it was in the name of 'freedom' doesn't make it right!

The ones who oppress freedom are those on the sidelines dictating the terms of 'freedom'. They're the ones who give the term 'freedom' it's currently corrupted definition.

And I'm going to label UNICEF and Amnesty International as prime examples of such offenders. Amnesty refuses to leave my country alone, and that pisses me off. They confuse contentment with complacency. I say they're just a bunch of headline-drunk idiots who have long forgotten what was their duty.