Kotaku
I've long been mulling over exactly how a theoretical Diablo III should look...for years now. You see, Diablo is a 2D franchise entering a 3D world. And its graphical style, as trivial and superficial as the topic may seem, will affect the way the game feels to play (which many have probably noticed in 3D Diablo clones like Dungeon Runners that feel distinctly less satisfying).
But after reading that King of Fighers XII was completely hand drawn, the answer to updating a 2D isometric game suddenly felt obvious—just draw it out.
Backtracking for a moment, it's in my humble opinion that Diablo III can't go 3D and maintain its trademark click to kill feel. But even giving the benefit of the doubt to Blizzard that they could deal with this issue (maybe by maintaining the same camera angle), it's hard to imagine such tiny characters on screen in 3D without becoming cartoony. Picture the units in Warcraft 3—there's a reason that the chunky style works for this world—the eye can identify small units that have large, cylindrical arms and giant blocky weapons.
But this art style doesn't match that of the Diablo world. Diablo is carnal in that stereotypical RPG way. If a weapon glows, it's with patina. If a monster is ugly, it's not in the PG Crocks "ugly is beautiful" way. It looks like an ugly monster.
With these boundaries in mind, the solution of hand drawing (and sticking with sprites) seems perfect. Without the limitations of polygons—current screen resolutions combined with Blizzard's artistic talent could create a Diablo that we've only seen in our mind's eye, one that is essentially concept art imported directly into the game without the artistically-limiting technical compromises of 3D modeling. (In short, it'd look a lot like Diablo 2 with the gloves off.)
Granted, KoF's process involved starting with a 3D model, turning it to 2D and then filling in the shading gaps by hand. That's how their animations look 3D and 2D at the same time. So if Blizzard mirrored such a production workflow—and there's absolutely no reason to believe they would—we could have plenty of the 3Desque eye candy in a true isometric world, not compromising Diablo mechanics, but bringing an unmistakable level of greater visual depth to the franchise. (UPDATE: Apparently the 3D to 2D conversion was used in Diablo 2, but it seems the hand-finishing elements of KoF were not.)
Sure, this is just one blogger's opinion. But a hand-drawn Diablo III feels like a Diablo limited only by an artist's pen. And the whole imaginary prospect seems very exciting to me.
Comments
Drawing whole dungeons..... yea sure
You know Titan Quest did an excellent job with the feel/look of a Diablo game but all done in real time 3D. What would be so hard about doing the same thing with Diablo 3?
Goddammit Wilson. Now I lust for a game that will never be. :)
Wait, there's going to be Diablo 3?
I agree. Sort of. With emerging tech, who knows? What about a 3/4 holo game? (Anyone else remember that?)
"But a hand-drawn Diablo III feels like a Diablo limited only by an artist's pen."
That and the large time and cost required to hand-draw the entire Diablo world.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic idea. It also sounds like a massive undertaking though.
That would be amazing. I don't think it'll happen though, ever since we got 3d games it's been 3d this 3d that. The possibilities of 2d games with the kind of hardware we have at our fingertips now is staggering..
I still think the original carmagedoom pedestrain have more details that all the others, 3D, encarnations. So I can agree with you. But anyway,.. do has mommar say, make it 3D, but isometric. That may work.
Methinks this is a great idea.
I just tried the demo for Titan Quest, and yes, it feels like Diablo. Exactly like Diablo, by way of Clash of the Titans. It can be done in 3D.
It would be VERY tricky to do given all the variations on weapons and armor that they would need... Since we won't be getting another Titan Quest, maybe Diablo III should just act as its spiritual successor.
@Kyle81: That's why Korean animation studios exist.
Diablo and Diablo 2 weren't hand-drawn, they were computer pre-rendered sprites.
The sprites in Diablo II were rendered from 3D models. I don't see any reason why real-time 3D models couldn't be used today. I'm sure the technology is there. I don't think the art direction would suffer from that choice.
I mean, don't get me wrong; I love 2D sprites, but I don't think that a real-time 3D Diablo III would in any way be a bad thing.
Isn't Diablo done in 3D, just converted to sprites?
It's a cool idea, having amazing paintings as backgrounds and stuff.
But after playing Hellgate: London, it's obvious to me that 3rd person is the way to go. HG:L kind of failed in regard to immersiveness, but Blizzard could make a 3rd person Diablo that is immersive and hopefully sickening and terrifying. The point and click ARPG works REALLY well in third person and I think HG:L proved that (despite other faults).
Diablo was a pretty frightening game at the time, but I don't think that feeling could be recreated today from an isometric view.
I love how the gaming community is rallying behind these wonderful sprite-based engines (theoretical or existent). I've preferred sprites to 3d for years now, and I always felt like I was crazy, or the only sane person in a crazy world. But now I'm not alone! I can only hope to see more things like Odin Sphere and KoF12.
Superb idea, if the resources exist to pull it off.
I think its sounds like the best idea I've ever heard. Diablo 3 in 3D would never feel quite right...
I think you need to email this article to several folks at Blizzard. Just to put the idea in their heads.
I love isometric games - SuperMario RPG, Diablo, etc - and if hand-drawing them is the way to bring them back, I'm all for it
I think that they should forego on a traditional Diablo 3 for the time being and make a Diablo SRPG. Grid-based tactical RPG dungeon crawler in the Diablo universe with a practically infinite amount of armor & weapons and tons of ability to find, with a system that combines the Persona Fusion in Persona 3 w/ the Skill Binding of Jeanne D'arc to give the player the ability to combine everything: weapons, armor, skills, items, in order to create new and unique things. It could be awesome!
It'd be really cool if they could figure a way to combine the real-time style strategy of GrimGrimoire with the grid-based style of Jeanne D'arc and Final Fantasy Tactics, etc. But of course in that isometric view.
@Kyle81: testing testing
I only played Diablo 2 and It's expansion. But for the most part, I remember it always being randomly generated.
From Mark Wilson's opinion. I can take what he said in two ways.
1. Literally draw everything but base it on newer technology like the way KOF is and make it look gorgeous and keep the aesthetics and Diablo feeling to it. It can be done... and it can be done well by Blizzard. I have faith in them.
2. Draw it out as in make the game so long and epic, people won't complain that its still in the 2.5 perspective. Updated graphics, but if its the same formula but extended to a longer more enjoyable playing experience, I can see it be a success.
Diablo 3, done correctly can be a masterpiece.
I'd rather get a Warcraft IV (I detest WoW now...) or an earlier release of Starcraft II, but Diablo 3 is still good.
@Kyle81:
2d Games and 3d games have hand-drawn tiles, you know..
How would hand drawing it take any longer than making the pixel based sprites of yesteryear? Besides, I don't think blizard is bound by cost and/or development costs in any way shape or form.
Everyones for the hand drawn sprites and stuff, but I agree with the others in here, it will take way too much time to finish off. I believe that Diablo 3 CAN be done in 3d...although it would lose the classic nostalgia that D2 invokes every time I play through it. If the game could be done in an isometric view, then I am 100% for it.
I don't care what it looks like, I just want it.
I'm sure there are plenty of old Don Bluth or Disney pen/ink animators that would be available to work on a project like this, seeing as how every single animated movie is done with computers these days.
Image Dirk the Daring running around in an isometric dungeon crawler? Sweet.
Wait, what? Diablo has always been rendered from 3D models... This makes no sense.
You actually gain quite a bit by going full 3D as opposed to rendering out sprites from 3D models in an isometric game. There have been several isometric RPGs in 3D and they all looked just fine.
@Queasy: each stage could still use many stock elements.
thing is... Diablo 1 *and* II were *entirely* made of prerendered 3d graphics. The only reason they did it was because they were trying to hit a low entry point so that everybody with their apple IIc could still play (caution: hyperbole). Why wouldn't they just do it again, or, better yet, do realtime rendering? The only real difference is the art direction.
Guilty Gear did it first. Give Guilty Gear some credit. GUILTY GEAR!
I think that the reason with KOF XII works is because there is a fixed resolution. A lot of the hand drawn detail would be lost by scaling to different resolutions (different PC configurations).
As much as I can see the charm of leaving a Diablo 3 entirely 2d, I'd love to see the same fixed isometric viewpoint in a 3d engine with a nice 'Diablo-look' shader over top. It would be nice to combine the Diablo gameplay with maybe a bit of a physics engine and some animation composition so we wouldn't be seeing the exact same death animations thousands and thousands of times over. I'd love to see a Diablo 3 where the environment itself was a considerable enemy, not just a series of stationary, invincible monsters pretending to be traps.
No randomly generated dungeons then.
Well unless you pay some sweatshop workers to randomly draw a map whenever someone decides they want to play, but i don't reckon that will work.
A bit of a simplistic answer and sure to draw at least some bashing from purists....the solution in my opinion has already been offered.....Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom. Many denounce this game but I love it. It is not without its limitations (what game is perfect?), but I love the art direction and game engine. I explain it to friends as a hybrid of Diablo and Gauntlet. Just a thought....
I agree with this completely, now too bad it'll never happen and I'm left to dream about a game that will never exist.
@Mommar: I could swear Titan Quest was still an isometric perspective. Those kind of games aren't hard to be done in 3D moving from 2D you know.
It gets shitty when you try and put them in a 3rd person RPG perspective. Which some games still excel at though. Probably not those that were previously 2D.
And yes, as others have noted, what's really funny is that the entire premise of this article - that Diablo was 2D art - is wrong. It was always prerendered 3D.
I just recently started playing D2 again, and can't help but find myself thinking about D3. Every time I'm skyping with my friend while we play D2, I always mention something about the third.
Blizzard WILL make it, and it WILL be amazing...
It's just a matter of when. :(
It has to be isometric. I don't care if it's done in 3D or with 2D techniques, so long as the perspective remains.
"Without the limitations of polygons..."
lolwut?
The 'true isometric world' can easily be done in 3D, a la Warcraft III, Starcraft II, and basically every RTS for the last 6 years or so. Have you seen games like World in Conflict? Not exactly "artistically-limiting technical compromises of 3D modeling." The gifted concept artists at Blizzard are used to having their work as faithfully implemented as is technically possible, whatever method is used.
Don't you worry your pretty little head, if Diablo II is ever produced it'll look amazing...you know it's true...
What about Fallout? I haven't heard much talk about whether Fallout's new 3d is acceptable, and that game certainly had a distinct "click-to-kill" isometric feel. I hadn't doubted Fallout 3 yet...but...maybe now I do a little.
@Gladman: They could just have a pre-determined set of drawings for walls, floors, etc. Then they have the random dungeon generator take the sets and make dungeons. You know, kind of like random dungeon generators already do.
Oooh i love guilty gear. And dont bring up Diablo 3 if there isn't any Diablo 3 news (such as HEY DIABLO 3 IS COMING OUT AND YOU GET A FREE COPY). That's the only Diablo 3 stuff i want to hear.
Diablo 3.
@Candlejack:
Yes, it is entirely isometric. What's your point?
@gaijira: doh I meant Diablo III xD
@Queasy: I think Bliz can afford it.
As long as it isnt an MMORPG I will be happy.
@Mommar: But...didn't you read my post? I said that isometric perspectives, and only isometric, aren't a problem to convert from 2D to 3D. It's just another engine zoomed out you know. It's been done a zillion times.
I don't really understand what the problem with any old fashioned RPG is - be it Baldur's Gate or Diablo (yes I know that is not much of an RPG). The problems start when you have to do it in a new perspective for public demand. And mine as well. I can't stand isometric camera perspectives outside of RTSs anymore.
Are any of the people who developed diablo 1 and 2 left? I swore a lot of them left to ArenaNet and Flagship.
@darthmole12: Thanks for the insight on the 3D rendering point, though, I am drawn to the idea of the prerendered animation workflow that includes a hand finish. Even with less lighting polish, etc, I think the rough edge would be an interesting art direction.