Kotaku
The Châteaux Marmont is one of those nondescript hotels that you need to know where it is to find. Fortunately, it's across the street from larger than life Rocky and Bullwinkle statues, so my cab driver was able to drop me right at the entrance, which happens to be a steep cobblestoned driveway that leads to a glass door.
Once inside I wait for the Rockstar folks to collect me at the front desk. They lead me back to the driveway and through a tall wooden gate which opens to a steep set of meandering cement stairs that cut through tall bushes, grass and towering walls of living bamboo.
Finally, we come to a clearing, a small yard and a long bungalow with a front made nearly entirely of glass doors. Inside is a small living room, a television, a couple of Xbox 360s and controllers.
But before dropping into the game and the play session I've read about on half a dozen other sites, I decide to quiz Jeronimo Barrera, Rockstar Games Vice President of Product Development, about episodic gaming and the nature of video games.
I float my theory of big games to Barrera. Call of Duty 4 was such an enjoyable experience, I tell him, because it was a game that, in theory, could be enjoyed in one sitting. It was designed to be experienced like a movie, without breaks, I think. But what about longer games that can't be enjoyed in one go, what about games that, like GTA, could take weeks or months to play through? I think, I tell Barrera, that they should almost be designed like novels, rather than like books.
"Or like a soap opera," he says, seeming to agree with me.
"In terms of story telling, (Grand Theft Auto IV) is incredibly compelling," he says. "Niko is a strong character."
But the Rockstar folks still know that when it comes down to it, Grand Theft Auto isn't as much about the story as it is the experience.
"In games like Metroid Prime if you lose your concentration, what's happening in the game you can't get back into it again.In the case of this game you are jumping into a world not necessarily a storyline."
Barrera says he sees the gaming industry going in two distinctly opposite directions: One direction includes games like Call of Duty 4's campaign that deliver a single play-through experience which is almost movie-like in its delivery. The other includes games like Grand Theft Auto which delivers more of a platform for experiences, rather than just a game.
Intrigued, I ask Barrera about Grand Theft Auto IV's episodic content. Why can't Rockstar use GTA as a platform, I ask. Why bother coming up with another GTA for this generation of consoles, couldn't the developer just create episodes for the game and live off that?
"We are calling the downloadable content (coming to the Xbox 360) episodes," he said.
But it's "an experiment" they're quick to add. Right now Rockstar doesn't seem sure that there are enough users with access to online content on the 360 to make it worthwhile for them to continue pumping out episodes.
Comments
I hope the main game feels complete and the 360 "episodes" are like side missions. I will be pissed if the PS3 version feels incomplete!
If they pulled the DLC fast enough, I am sure they could get good profit and great ratings in return. IF it's an episode every so many years like VALVe I don't think it's going to go over as well.
"The Châteaux Marmont is one of those non-nondescript hotels that you need to know where it is to find."
I know you're a very touchy guy when it comes to people pointing out mistakes/errors at Kotaku, but honestly I have no idea what you're trying to say there. Non-nondescript? Is that intentional, like it's a REALLY nondescript place? And don't you need to know where most things are in order to find them?
I really enjoyed the rest of the piece, and episodic GTA is certainly news to me, but I could've used more talk with Barrera and less preamble.
ps3 or 360 i still dont no 100% which 1 to get...
Episodic content. Couple of hits and misses; can't really put a conclusion to it.
It could work really well with GTAIV. How about just multiplayer maps devoid of stroyline; sniper perches, air combat, sort of city section CTF?
Interesting. I think the biggest factor here is money. By releasing the full game in retail stores you'll make a lot more money than you would from providing it digitally. Keep in mind that there are still some 360 owners without an HD even so they can't even take advantage of such episodic content.
I also feel like Rockstar has done episodic content but in retail form. Take "Liberty City Stories" and "Vice City Stories" for instance. Those are tie-ins to the original game with some of the same characters. They could provide those as DLC to the original game and call them episodes too.
Side stories to fill out elements of a game's story... that's the way to go. Don't leave things hanging at the end. The original game itself should feel complete. As good as Half Life 2 was, I always thought the major cliff-hanger ending and the subsequent continuation of that game's story in an episodic format was not the best way to go.
I used to be a supporter of DLC, but I hate getting the feeling of being shortchanged by all of these companies that nickel and dime their customers for small amounts of new content.
Remember when companies used to release updates for their products - new content and all - for free (ie. map packs a la Unreal Tournament, any Blizzard product ever, etc)? Now companies have little to no incentive to do this, the "why not charge three bucks" mentality.
(Oh, and I'm tired of hearing people say "It's only x amount, no big deal". All of it adds up, and it sucks to pay more on top of 60 bucks.)
@Gustavo:
i think he says that its one of those places you need to know where it is in order to find it.
if that makes sense...
Make them for PS3 also. There, problem solved you just doubled your potential download base.
@Crazyeyez15: Same here. I don't have the cash of desire to purchase either at thhe moment but 6 monthes from now might be a different story. I'm thinking PS3 might be the better purchase for the long run... at least for me.
@pagancollective: It scares the hell out of me that I almost literally forgot the days when you got updates beyond bug-fixing patches for free.
@Seruza:
Money talks, and Microsoft paid Rockstar 150 Million for that content. So it's not going anywhere unfortunately. Well maybe to the PC for Live owners there.
@dip: My spelling r fail.
or* the* months*
PS3 will get DLC one way or another too though... although i would love to have both kinds of DLC. ironically both being exclusively different.
why do they have to fuck consumers over like this? "oh yeah, we got 360 version with achivements and awesome DLC"
what about PS3 version? Home trophys please? some special DLC, even a small, new island? or mini-missions?
it's just Downloadable content ater all, except for HOME. that would be cool. also if you could use your home in GTA as a safehouse. that would truely be kickass.
yes, i'm a little jeleous, and pissed off. GTA has always been on PS first. but they should be the same...
Another good read on GTAIV thanks Crecente!
Id be for episodic content if its actually a fair amount of gameplay / things added to the world itself.
Quick Question,
Please don't flame the Yeti for ignorance.
Will rockstar be bound to the 150mg limit for XBL content?
Doesn't seem like a lot of new additions can be added in 150 mg space.
I'm a little jealous that the 360 is getting exclulsive
GTA4 content.I can only assume that the huge cash deal with MS will rule out such DLC on the PS3,even if it's different than the 360's.Oh well.
I'm going with the 360 version on this one for now. I'll get the PS3 version if its not a gimped version though. I really want to play on a system that won't break on me and doesn't sound like a helicopter taking off when I can.
I think Harmonix and RedOctane have made a lot of money with the download packs for their games I'
m Rockstar will make enough money to justify these "episodes".
So, in general what makes this different than the previous GTA series in terms of gameplay (honestly seeking answers)? Does this one has some cool and awesome new features? Or pretty much the same.. like get a mission, rob a car, get the job done, collect the money, and spend it?
I'm quite excited although I'm not a GTA fans, but knowing how gorgeous the world is, I hope it would be backed up by a great gameplay too.
@pagancollective: I agree with you whole-heartedly here and it's a point I was trying to make regarding the Mass Effect DLC but I got shut down because people interpreted it as me saying mass effect sucked, which, from what I hear, wasn't the case at all. My point was then and is now, I don't want to end up paying a hundred bucks for your "experience" when I'm already paying 60 bucks for your game. I wanna pay 60 bucks and get the game which should encompass the whole effing experience - not simply an invitation to spend more money later, which is what a lot of games are turning into.
@UmaroLovesMilk:
The file size limit is for Arcade titles only. Game expansions and downloadable full retail games can be however big they need to be.
Shivering Isles expansion for Oblivion was well over a gig, as I recall.
@Gustavo: Agreed. I don't in any way care or want to hear about some hotel with an obnoxious sounding name, or anything other than the interview and the game for that matter. Crecente, what did you have for dinner that night?
@SAKY: I'm sure Rockstar will make enough money to justify these "episodes".*
i dont' get it, are the dlc bits in the ps3 version or not? if not, why not? they will have made the game for both versions, making dlc for both wouldn't take any effort at all.
Bring this to wii dammit!.
@Huxleyhobbes: This is why I refuse to ever buy these "map packs" and things that, until Microsoft came along and arbitrarily changed things, were always free. I've said it before and I'll say it again: No company ever charged money for a map before unless it came with an otherwise huge expansion pack.
No, I'm not so "cheap" I can't afford $3 or whatever. It's a matter of principle. All of a sudden we're expected to pay for the same amount of content we used to get for free. We're already paying $10 more for games all of a sudden with absolutely no justification.
@UmaroLovesMilk:
Is it really limited to 150MB's though? I know that's the cap for XBLA games, but it's not the cap for all content though right?
@DigitalHero:
yeah, it would sure suck to be addicted to a game like GTA IV and then having your system break. just sayin....
@TheNumchucks: Your will will laugh at you and proceed to nunchuck you
I will be getting the ps3 version...I am not that easily guillable and I dont want to pay more for the game when I already paid $65 for it in the first place.
If i had to pick a version id get the 360 version right now for dlc. But i agree with the other people that think ps3 will get some sort of dlc.
@Fyren: Nice Freudian there, "your wii will..."
Episodic content is still in its infancy, but I have high hopes. Take a game with a winning formula, and make a two or three hour episode with a compelling story.
Sometimes I don't want a whole new game, or a whole new world to learn. And yes, episodic content should be designed to play through in one sitting - akin to spending an evening watching a movie.
well i guess if the 360's version actually ends up with more in it then it's a trade off between cost/content
yes, it will suck hard if the story is less complete on ps3... oh well. i dunno, i got bored of gta half way through vice city (long time ago).
still i played gta2 just the other day, awesome game.
@bkN00b:
did you really finish mass effect thinking "This game isn't complete, they're gonna add more content later"? I think Mass Effect and Oblivion were great stand alone games, and the developers decided to add onto those worlds instead of just raking in the money and sitting around.
Also, games cost $60 now because of inflation, games are always going to be costing more and more. It as nothing to do with how much content is put into them.
Seriously, Blizzard and other companies were doing expansion packs over a decade ago that added nothing but new units and maybe a semi-interesting side story, yet no one seemed to care...
No one seems to complain when Half Life 2 started coming out with episodic content.
Why cry about GTA4 or Mass Effect doing the episodic thing?
Personally I really dont believe this content is as "exclusive" as what it appears. That term has been thrown around so much over these last two generations that its lost all meaning. Frankly I think it could be written up where the episodes are only a timed exclusive but with the stipulation that its kept really hush hush so MS can unload more systems/copies on their side. Besides, most people seem ignorant to the fact that PS3 gets its own content too. Lets not forget that a lot of these developers are really liking the built in HDD and are starting to utilize it
@Gustavo: "non-nondescript" is a typo...should be just nondescript. Otherwise it's a double negative.
@Crecente: Don't listen to these guys...a little imagery never hurt anyone.
@comedy:
the story is not "incomplete" the game itself has an ending no matter what. These episodes could be more or less unimportant as they either don't pertain to the main story or are just an afterthought.
Think of it this way: in the old fairy tales they always ended with "they lived happily ever after." A
I used to be all for episodic and downloadable content... Until ATT capped my bandwidth! Now I'd just rather spend my money and tax on buying a retail game. Or If I'm too busy to stop by a retail store, pay for shipping online. Episodes... I don't really think a game like GTAIV would need episodes to expand the story seeing as many would just go sandboxing when the game is done and try to complete other little side missions.
@Sparx88:
this just kind of shows what happened during the happily ever after part which really doesnt add anything to the basic story
@Gustavo: it's called a typo. I mention that because it looks like you were struggling to find the right word.
@dip: i got no money either so ya im with ya on that. ya maybe the ps3 will be better in the long run... i never finshed a gta before so thats y im thinking this content is useless to me.
Impressive write up - it even makes me want to play this game.
@UmaroLovesMilk:
I'm thinking the same thing. XBLAs 150MB limit isn't going to cut it right?
@dead_red_eyes: Does PS3 have that limit?
Legit question actually, not trying to start a PS3/360 thing here. Kinda curious.
@UmaroLovesMilk: there is no 150 mb dlc limit on XBL. Thats the limit on live arcade games. I downloaded tomb raider via xbl and thats like 2.4 gigs.
@comedy: Rockstar already stated earlier there will be DLC for PS3 but it will be different than the 360 episodes. They owe MSFT exclusive content as per their arrangement, but they are going to give PS3 something, they are just not sure what right now.
I am in the same boat as many others on this thread. I want to put in a pre-order but I'm a bit nervous about which system to commit to. I am tending to lean towards the PS3 only because I have an original 360 and prefer the look of the HDMI out. Hopefully there will be more info about the two versions in the coming weeks to help us multi-system people decide!