Kotaku
With larger hard drives and faster bandwidth, a future in which players are downloading a majority of new releases isn't all that unimaginable since eliminating a retail middle man could make the prospect very enticing for publishers and developers. But what about the sexier aspects to this digital model? With such a digital infrastucture, these oft-prophecized downloadable purchases only scratch the surface.
What if publishers could counteract the Blockbusters/GameFlys of the world by offering digital rentals, and taking the idea a step further, stick it to GameStop resales by offering a simple system in which gamers could trade or sell their games online?
Stepping back to compare the digital movie industry for a moment, Apple recently signed on all the major film studios to rent their releases online. How does such a system work technically? It's easy, if a movie could be purchased and downloaded before, a download that costs a little less and is tagged to expire is really no more difficult. How does such a system work pragmatically? Apple, wanting to support (read: profit) on their media hardware, only takes the most modest chunk off the song/movie's sale price. The rest goes to those who create the content.
Does this not seem like the obvious next step for the gaming industry?
As for building a digital resale marketplace, such a scenario grows far more complicated, but not impossible. Now that gamers are comfortable dealing in points, imagine this simple system: you buy a game for 100 points, sell it for 50 points, and buy a used games for 75. So what's the catch? You can't sell a used game, and you only get sale points credited if someone buys your game.
Is the plan flawed? I'm sure. It took all of ten seconds to think of. But the important idea here is that an all digital model could have publisher-profitable limits on trade that would be made up to consumers by its extreme ease of use.
But most of all, the truly enticing aspect of such a model (for publishers/devs) is that consoles could provide a relatively safe haven for such a rental/trading system to exist. Unlike PCs, the specialized hardware and OS of these closed boxes make potential exploits far less likely at the scale of the average user—and when they do occur—far more manageable to the infrastructure as a whole (because, face it, firmware wars work pretty freaking well).
And while I'd love to have complete freedom with my digital content, I'd gladly make a few sacrifices for one, simple to use system that works from my couch.
Comments
Shouldn't this be a Kotaku feature?
I'm telling you, this Divx thing will set the world on fire!
I think the load times might hold this back atleast for a while. When a demo of a game takes more than an hour (this is on the current system) I dont think we will be able to rent full games until the generation after the next generation. as for buying full games over the web I would be down for that as long as my data is backed up or I am allowed to back it up myself. I dont want my game to be stuck to my console I would want to be able to burn it.
I'm still curious why there isn't a web browser for Xbox LIVE myself.
@tkshredder: I also vote this as a kotaku feature.
christ don't give them anymore ideas. divx failed once it will fail again.
DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS
@gadgetron, Hills: Agree....shhhhhhhhhhhh.
@gadgetron: Heh, tell Apple that.
digital rental = awful idea. i download it, i download it forever. im not paying for shareware.
I'd say the idea has limitations as far as capacity goes. How much space do you think a 1080P High-def game will take up? I imagine 5-10GB's if not more. Frankly, not everyone has the HD space for that, nor the patience to wait for that to download. Microsoft's max capacity is 20GB's for their current consoles.
So what happens when I am done with a game, and want to give it to a friend who does not know if they want to buy it yet? In the current model, I have paid for the game, if the friend likes it, they go buy it. In this model you propose, that is no more. In order to know if I like a game, I can no longer borrow it from a friend.
Also, take a game like Lair. I thought Lair was an ok game. And now it is only $30 at GameStop if I buy it used. $30 is an acceptable price to me for a game that is just ok. $60 is not.
And maybe I am lucky, I have been to 5 GameStops in Atlatna, GA and have never had or seen the problems that I see people post about them a lot.
TheAngryHeretic
Game companies will NEVER have an download rental setup. They want people to BUY not RENT games.
Furthermore, to stop hard copy rentals from happening in the future, game companies will have DOWNLOAD ONLY purchase.
I like that it would screw over Gamefly and Gamestop, but it would also be hell on anyone who doesn't have high speed internet. Poor 56k nubs...
I want nothing to do with this envisaged DRM infested hell. What happens 10 years after the console has gone off the market and you fancy playing a few old games but your console is dead? You won't be able to buy a new one off eBay and play all your old games on it as they'll all be locked to your dead hardware on an inaccessible, encrypted hard drive (and possibly only work when there's an internet connection to the game maker's servers anyway).
@nerdBOY01: You could have said the same about the film industry after the crazy success of DVD, but times change.
So, instead of buying games, or even licenses, we'd now buy "lapsing licenses" with strict controls over their transfer.
No offense but it is a terrible idea. And I buy most all of my games new. Most people want to "own" things, not rent, and I honestly haven't seen digital delivery of games take off that much for non arcade things, people like having boxes and manuals, but most of all, they like having a physical copy of the disc that will (hopefully) work and be there regardless of what happens to their system, or gamertag, or whatnot, and that in some future might even appreciate or even just retain a portion of its value, which can be transferred to others on sale.
I would ask too, why would the publishers allow people to sell to other people at all? Wouldn't it also sort of undercut their main avenue of income (selling games?) How would this value be transferred and who'd decide how much you can ask for your used games?.
And how would it be converted to money? Would you get MS points, or valve points, or wii points, or some other meaningless, non transferrable currency of value only if you want to get more games from company X (which would no doubt be their preferred solution).
And well, why would anyone pay for a "used" license to begin with?.
I guess it might work for some people, but if movie rentals are any indication, it wouldn't for most.
Good idea Mark, but I'm not sure I'd like games (that cost more than 10 bucks) trapped on a hard drive with no way to get them off. The ultimate DRM...
This would be great, but ain't going to happen if Net Neutrality is killed.
XBox Live already has "rentals" in place. However, at 5 - 7GB per HD movie, it can take upwards of 4 hours to get the thing (I recently 'rented' Order of the Phoenix in 720p, but it looked great!). So I'm not sure that that's something the layman is about to do very often. I don't know what the quality of the non-HD movies is like on the XBox Video Store, so I can't comment on that.
My one worry is that downloadable rentals will *replace* hard-copy 'ownership', making it nigh-on impossible to take a favorite movie over to a friend's place for a movie night, et al. I can see it happening as well. Money rules, and if the people in charge can get $5 *per viewing* instead of $30 for something a person can watch whenever, and wherever, they want.. how long do you think that hard-copy system is going to last?
Doomsday thinking I guess, but it's worrisome.
@nerdBOY01:
Yep. This would be a pretty bad business move. It simply wouldn't be as profitable for companies to do. Physical media is always going to sell more. They wouldn't set up ways to block any potential sales by making it easier to rent such games.
i think this is a very valid projection. the only thing is that i see the 'used' being out of the question, since really what you're paying less for when you buy a used copy retail is the fact that it could have scratches, the packaging/manual aren't in the best shape, and it's not sealed.
Digital distribution writes those factors out of the equation, as there's no difference between a 'new' and 'used' download, if it's certified un-altered. (code-wise)
since the current platform for distribution is relatively closed to outside tampering (XBL, PSN, Steam), the 'certification' of it being authentic is readily feasible.
if any kind of after-market trading goes on, i see it as an ebay-style bidding or like the faux-market in online games like FFXI, where supply and demand dictate how much you can re-sell it for.
@nerdBOY01: very good point.
I don't want digital rentals, I want to be able to buy a game in package but also digital. So far prices ain't cheap enough compared to buying it boxed so why would I want to. I bought games on Steam and ign thing but that only works for certain games and when good priced and not easy to find in a store. I would never want to use the live marketplace for rentals, ever.
Let them both exist, but I'm not ready to completly move into digital downloads only, ask me again in 5years, maybe 10. In the end, if and when this goes through it will hurt the consumers the most, same prices no re-sale or gifts etc. Not to mention storage and internet speeds. I don't want this, especially now or soonish.
@ssjmichael: WHAT I'M also saying is that Perhaps in the next console generation there will be DOWNLOAD ONLY purchases and no hard physical copy media. Doing download only eliminates re-selling games & rentals!
I don't really buy games at, maybe once a year. I rent all my games.
More money going to the people actually responsible for making the games = good. Dunno how long it'd take for expensive, blockbuster titles to go that route though. Logistical challenges aside, people like physical media.
"... imagine this simple system: you buy a game for 100 points, sell it for 50 points, and buy a used games for 75. So what's the catch? You can't sell a used game, and you only get sale points credited if something buys your game."
This is a silly idea. Given that all DLC copies would be completely equivalent upon download, who in their right mind would buy an "unused" copy? And the convenience of immediately getting your pay for selling used copies is exactly why people would sell their games to Gamestop instead of on eBay. No, a better system would allow all purchasers to sell the game license directly back to the publisher for a fixed price.
People don't like intangible property. People like having hard copies of things. I don't want to digitally download anything, unless I know I can transfer that digital data to another computer.
Steam does that well :)
As for this rental thing... I say boo-urns to that. If I spend money on something to rent, I want a hard copy. Not something that 'deactivates'.
I don't like it...I've had a hard time with DRM issues with music...I don't want this problem with 60$ games...
or just forego retail and offer a sister-site like "direct2drive.com" and maybe cut the price by 5 dollars.
While I had the affinity for physical boxes and jewel cases, last two year of acquiring PC gaming has changed my principal.
@Toasticus: The idea of "used" digital information hurts my brains.
Never, ever. Never. This will never ever happen with any AAA title. Do you think Nintendo ever envisioned a day where anyone with an internet connection could "TRY Super Mario Galaxy 2 Online For Free!!!''
@FrigidAir44: Yes, I agree people DO want hard copies. But for the console markers doing download only would be FAR more profitable for them. If they made this move it could potentially alienate many useres who don't have cable internet, but then again how many SERIOUS gamers don't have cable internet???
Hrmmm, a Gamefly-esque system for digital game rentals might work. You pay X to have have Y game rental slots on your system, that you can swap games in and out of. Obviously the 9-50* gigs of content isn't going to come screaming down the internet instantaneously, which is why you actually want the extra slots. Publishers get paid based on how long a game is in each slot rounded to the hour (which is X/Y*12/365/24 per hour).
Since Gametap hasn't gone out of business yet, digital game rental must have SOME market.
*Sorry, I don't remember how big Bluray is right now to give me the big end and I'm too lazy to look it up. Work with me here ;-).
If the industry goes DLC, then I will stop buying games and stick to twenty years of games I already own. I need hard copies.
It's no secret that both Sony and MS are just itching for a day when they can cut Gamestop out of the loop. Sony has said it's "ridiculous" that we still buy games on shiny little discs, and MS has long been a proponent of download services. They would love it if they didn't have to pay those manufacturing costs anymore, or the "Gamestop tax" (as they see it), ie. retailer profit.
The problem for them is that retailers are where people buy stuff. And that is never, ever going to change. Downloading may be supplementing retail sales to a certain extent, but I've seen no evidence whatsoever that they're replacing retail sales. I mean, physical game sales are still increasing, even while Xbox Live, PSN and the Virtual Console have become popular.
Look what happens to download-only games: nothing. How many people bought Tekken 5? This is one of the top fighting games in the world, and the newest iteration barely even registered. Ditto for Warhawk, which only really took off when Sony finally caved and put it in a box and released it to stores.
Downloading probably sounds like a nice idea in theory, but it just doesn't work as a primary business model. And we're not moving in a direction where it will, anymore than the fact that the government would like to cut out expensive oil as a source of energy is causing people to stop buying cars and telecommute instead. People like cars, and they're not going to give them up without a fight.
Ditto for physical media, or really physical sales of anything. *Where* somebody buys things can change, but what and how they buy really can't. I think it's pretty deep-seated in the human psyche - we need a physical thing to feel like we own something. Otherwise it's like we're paying for thin air. Software programs are nebulous, they're ideas. Discs are physical products. We buy physical products, not ideas.
@vonfaustus: You know...I've wondered that myself. Why is it that the 360 is the only console without a browser, but has the best (so far) online experience. Seems kind of backwards.
But on this subject, I would love to have something like this...one I get a system with a hard drive, lol. In case you guys and girls havent realized...I have a Wii! YES!!!!
@nerdBOY01:
I don't see it being far more profitable. Will it be cheaper than producing physical copies? Yes. Will it sell better than physical copies would in retail stores? Absolutely not! In that perspective how would it be more profitable. The majority (keyword here) of people still want something they can keep forever. They don't want an all digital collection, especially one they can't even keep forever or use the way they want (DRM blows). You really shouldn't downplay the significance of physical media, it's here to stay for many years to come. Now having an option between the two might be okay, but not the way Mark is proposing here.
I can't post my comment but I see new ones constantly...
Disregard this if you see it...
Another thing Mark, How can you be so against DRM in the music industry and write tons of articles bashing the RIAA and DRM on Gizmodo, and write an article that essentially proposes a DRM'd gaming industry? It doesn't make sense to me
Oh yes, please, who wouldn't love a system that screws consumers while the publishers see record profits? It may come eventually, but wishing for it is shortsighted and borderline-retarded.
Also, how feasible would it be to offer downloadable rentals when we're lucky to see one new demo a week on XBL/PSN?
Ok, something about my comment confused the page... have to do it in parts this time.
DLC is a rental as it is now, and that sucks.
Lately people have been talking about how much they love Rez, and still dig it out and play it from time to time. That's not going to happen with Rez HD or any of its downloadable contemporaries - once the support for this generation of consoles is up, if your console breaks, the game is gone. No disc to track down on eBay, no online account to log into, it's just gone - until the game company decides to re-release it at full retail price - because what's it competing with? There is no alternative!
I really hate digital downloads.
When i pay full price for something i want to own it, share it with my friends, keep it for forever, sell it to gamestop or ebay, most of all i don't want to have to worry about it no longer being available.
This whole idea of playing a game beating it and deleting it off my harddrive is stupid. i still go back and play snes games, i don't want to have to rebuy chrono trigger everytime i want to play it. Nor do i want it to be stuck on my harddrive so my friend can't check out a game i loved but doesn't have the money to afford or was skeptical on playing.
As for digital rentals sure i wouldn't mind that at all it's cheap and easier then even online rental shops and they are things i don't keep. But anything i buy and own i don't ever want in a digital form unless it's just a distraction like XBLA and PSN titles.
@kennyd1: Well if they work them like the VC/PSN/XBLA games. Let you download them, and they are always kept to your account. So you can add and remove them whenever. The only concern, as has been stated throughout, would be download times and space. Once that has been smoothed out...it would be a wonderful idea!
sorry for the third comment, but this is just a bad idea. hard copies of games are the only way to go lets be fair here you do not really own DLC its just a long term rental.
Sorry to say this, Mark, but you don't read the EULA of a lot fo games, DVDs or CDs. What you don't realize is that you're not buying the plastic and paper that makes up the disc and packaging. That sure as hell doesn't cost $60. What you're buying is a license to view/listen/play the title in a non-commercial, private home setting. Radio stations don't just go out and buy a disc then play it over and over again; they have to buy a license for repeated play on a commercial, public venue.
Essentially, your "used" license idea is pretty much a bust when it comes to games.
I can purchase "used" licenses of excruciatingly expensive computer programs (not games) from other people privately, so long as they've fully deactivated their licenses first. However, the company that sold them the product in the first place isn't making a dime on the sale, which would immediately create a problem for the gaming model. Given how publishers are crying foul over GameStop's used game profits, going virtual in a private network (like Live) would guarantee the death of the used game. The best that gamers could hope for is a drop in price as a game ages in similar fashion to map-packs today.
Having said this, there is a way to deal with the issue of taking your game/movie to a friend's house: the license key. For example, Cubase 4 (a music creation and editing program) allows me unlimited installs on as many computers as I want, regardless of OS. However, a small USB key must be inserted to run the program. Naturally, pirates get around this protection, but the'll get around everything eventually.
However, imagine a simple "Live Key" wherein it is more than just a memory card, but contains all your licenses for everything you ever buy. I don't currently own a memory unit for the 360, so I don't know how much of my Gamertag stuff I can transport to someone else's house. If this has already been done, then simply expand on this.