I remember reading this yesterday....

Could this be targetted for a class action lawsuit?
If what he says is true, there could be major legal ramifications for Microsoft.

Its like Deja Vu...

This story seems to make me more angry the second time I read it.

Saw this on digg yesterday. Is any of this really a surprise? I love my 360, but everyone knows the hardware is a pile of shit. We don't need 'inside sources' to tell us what we already know: MS screwed up the design and testing of the 360's hardware and the resulting clusterfuck has cost them billions (which they deserve).

Interesting read. Wonder if it's the truth.

@Tonx: and if not, couldn't it be slander? i've very little legal knowledge.
anyway, i'm pretty sure the gpu-motherboard-warping double whammy has been known about for ages.

Uhmm... This is surprising? A 30% failure rate doesn't go by testing unnoticed.

I thought the internet, in all its glorious oneness, had already come to the conclusion that the RROD was a screwup of biblical proportions that is partially forgiven by their behavior since (warranty and such) over a year ago.

also, i love the whole 'i told them waggle would be the next big thing!' bit at the end.
hmm.

@ErickTheRed:

Wow, that's some long term memory.

O.o

?

On topic:

I don't think any of us were deluded that Microsoft didn't drop the ball on this one intentionally. They knew it would fatal and they decided to sell anyway. And they got away with it. One billion for that support or whatever is negligible to the amount of revenue the Xbox as a market icon and a brand brings in.

The only people who got fucked on the deal were the consumers. But that's usually how it is.

Now, this should not affect the falcon models? or at least minimize the occurence?

Yeah....disappointing if true, but not surprising....this phenomenon has become common in American manufacturing....for M$ haters....I'm not making an excuse...just commenting on reality...luckily, i have only had to return one 360..

An ex msoft employee who is now a co-worker of mine did 360 testing and has told me similar things. There was a high test failure, but approvals came as long as 'the game played'.

It's shocking really.

Well, the final reason stated is what the modding community has been saying for the past year or so - the X-Clamp putting undue pressure on the motherboard, causing the GPU solder connections to fail.

Then again... Microsoft CHOSE to consider this a "minor issue" and continue with the product as it is. And what has it done for them as of now? Well, some angry people, for sure, but the system is doing great nonetheless. I'm not saying it was a good move on their part, because IMO it is not, but this is the perfect example of "No one will care, they'll buy it anyway!"

Personally, I will NEVER buy an Xbox product, but it's because I don't care for the majority of the games the system has to offer.

I don't really care about the RRoD simply because the 360 still has the best games. I would rather have a system that breaks mabye one or two times and has the best games then a system that never breaks (*cough* Wii *cough*) But only has around five good games.

And metcalf was never heard from again..Spooky

"excessive heat on the GPU warping the mother board around it" Wow and thought the PS3 got hot glad i waited a while for the 360.

@fyren:
No, the Falcons are still part of the flawed design, just with cooler chips which cause less damage. The article says the fail rate of those appear to be less than 10% but "still too high imho", as opposed to 30% of the launch units. They're getting there, I guess.

Next week: how he ended up on a 36-hour bender with Princess Diana's driver in the Ritz bar in August 1997... under the orders of his local Masonic lodge.

I'm no MS fanboy (if there are any), but it's obvious from complaint levels that the 360s are sub-par.

@Mokona: That makes me sad because it basically says "As long as you release your system a year before the competion you will succeed". There's really nor reason for anyone (Not just MS) to care if people buy it anyways.

Am I reading that right? Initial 30% yield?
That means that 7 out of every 10 consoles made were not good? Then 1 out of those 3 that were shipped were returned...
Please someone tell me I'm wrong. That's just sad, and pathetic, if it's true.

@Peffse:
Welcome to the next generation!

The saddest part is that even if this story is true, the 360 is still by far the best of the current consoles to get.

Have the failure rates gone down in time, or are they the same? This is the main reason I bought a PS3. That and games like Gears coming to the PC.

It's funny. I am still the only person I know with a PS3. Everyone I know has an XBox, or their kids have one. Haven't heard of any failures from them, but I haven't asked.

So far I am still PC gaming the most by far.

Wow, this is pretty bad, I had always assumed the 360 had basic design flaws, and this seem to suggest that aside from the central issue of the GPU most of the problems are actually with manufacturing quality and testing, which is kind of a whole other problem. I had a friend who got a new 360 on Saturday, and had to return it to the store (ToysRUs who charged him a $65 fee for this service) with a red ring on Sunday (yes I mean day before yesterday), its pretty bad. These are people who had previously owned and sold a PS3 for lack of games (that they specifically play at least), and now just a few days into owning the console they're instilled with the same creeping fear and caution as most 360 owners.

I think we're about ready for that 360-Lite or whatever MS, brought to us by new and improved manufacturing partners. At this point it would be less painful to get it sooner than stumble along and drag this issue out even longer, you'll be dealing with RROD warranties until late 2009 at the minimum as it is.

John Edwards would be disgusted!

Hmm this is something to ponder on if the info is legit.

@homernoy: Missed the failure rates in the article. I read it now.

If what's being said IS true, is it really a surprise?

It's fucking Microsoft. Rushing out a faulty product is standard operating procedure. See Windows.

I purposely held off getting a 360 for nearly a year after launch figuring they would've at least had their stuff together by then and still ended up with 4 360's until one didn't disk read error or RROD.

It doesn't matter if the information is legit or not, FUD is spread every time the rumour mill fires up.

My theory was planned early obsolescence. Disturbing as that explanation is, it sounds a bit more innocent than what I think.

This failure rate just made me go out and buy the intercooler for the system. (not the one with a plastic connector but the metal one. RRoD is a heating issue and like any PC enthusiast will tell you, "If it runs hot add more fans." I keep the system horizontal on an open surface, the system stays cool and the hot air gets sucked out by the added fans. The horizontal position increases the system's physical stability while giving it a larger top surface to disperse heat. I can put my hand on the top of the system and its cool even after several hours of play. No RRoD after having it for over a year so far.

@xbulletholes: Slander is spoken, this was written down so it would be libel.

Yeah, this really isn't news, but I thoroughly support bringing it up, every single day, until it's clear to Microsoft, or any other hardware/software designer or manufacturer that it's not acceptable, not only is it morally wrong, it will also cost them money and customers in the long run.

It's ridiculous that Microsoft ever thought they could do this. It's even more ridiculous that they clearly CAN do it.

Hardly surprising when you look at how small the GPU heatsink is compared to the CPU heatsink and the fact that it's boxed in underneath the DVD drive. Still, I always run my launch 360 next to my desk fan and it's still going strong, so hopefully it will last a few more years... (famous last words probably!!)

I was falsely given the school ID of some guy named Metcalf last year, when I was leaving the campus gym. He didn't have a meal plan. Yet, he uses campus facilities. Suspicious. This is clearly all involved in some sort of massive family conspiracy for this Metcalf fellow.

This is interesting if true.

"Too bad that they screwed up and forgot to retain the JTAG IEEE 1149 test functionality, at least what little they had. Now it will be almost impossible for them to tell if that chip is bad if the unit won't boot in the factory. So they will have to trouble shoot by replacing the most expensive part in the system blindly. They keep repeating bad decisions, and everyone is afraid to push issues considered to be bad news."

Sadly enough, this story is total bullshit. Can't say more than that, but most of the information is innacurate, false, or taken out of context.

Xbox's mission statement is to preserve the Windows monopoly and extend it into the living room

The Wii does not make me happy as a game console, but it is comments like this that make me glad it is selling so well. Love it or hate it, but competition among the consoles is important to get the best games made.

This reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Side Show Bob's brother builds a shoddy dam in Springfield. Except the Xbox craftsmanship is the dam, and the loyal Microsoft fans are the Springfieldians below.

I should add that I own a Wii-60.

Though I question the validity of this information, I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. The XB360 has too high of a failure rate to not cast a veil of suspicion over it.

@DeviousOne: Use your magical sources for that? Most of the technical issues listed in the article had already been discovered by many other sources over a year ago, this is just repeating most of this known info in one location along with some supposedly leaked numbers.

theres nothing that we havent heard before, this might just be an article that pieces together the rumors and passes them on as fact.

@dicklaurentisdead: lol, reminds me of that line in Spiderman. "I resent that. Slander is spoken. If it's written it's libel."

@DeviousOne: "Can't say more than that."

Wow, that just reeks credibility. If you're going to post something like that, then you should just not post at all. Here allow me to demonstrate:

"@DeviousOne: Trust me when I say everything DeviousOne says is false. I can't go into details here, but you can't trust the guy for anything. That's all I will say"

See how anonymous, vague comments over the internet are pointless?

@DeviousOne: And your evidence for that is where exactly?

I'm inclined to believe this as there is far more evidence to prove it. And what with having to send back 2 360s myself.

@DeviousOne: Actually, you can say more. You choose not to. Your statement is the same as saying "This story is totally true. I can't so more on that." Unless you have something to give yourself credibility (as the articles does), you're statement is utterly worthless.

@DasKonstruct: You say this like you're proud. Yours works because you installed extra hardware, put in in a special place, set it in a certain way, stand with one leg pointing west and saying a prayer to Vishnu before every game load? Don't act like that makes this O.K. Crappy quality control is crappy quality control. Asking for every consumer to take steps to bring the reliability closer to acceptable (which it still isn't) is ridiculous.

That's why I bought a PC instead :P

This is the only reason why I have never purchased an Xbox 360. I have no faith in the hardware, and we've never received any clear word that it's all been fixed. I'd love to put a box next to my Wii, but the PS3's library is lacking and the 360 is too likely to crap out on me.

In the Joystiq article the guy additionally claims that Microsoft is running out of new systems to replace the old RROD'd ones.

I thought lots of people were getting their same systems back with an added heat sink? Wouldn't that show this rumor to be total crap?

While I've [fortunately] never had the RRoD, I do get a lot of disc read errors and freezing games...

Does anyone else experience that?

American consoles are like American cars: cheaply made and break all the time. However since parts are so cheap and plentiful nobody seems to mind and people keep on buying. As much as I want to play games on the 360 I just can't force myself to jump in and send my $$ to a company that treats it's customers like this. It sucks having to wait to play these games until they come out for PC, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.