That article proves that they haven't arrived yet. Enjoyment? I scoff at that logic. We don't play games to enjoy them. We play them to enjoy making others feel bad for enjoying games.

Surely it's the elitist I'm-female-and-gaming-for-twenty-years bitch in me, but every time I read about how women are now finally gaming I feel somehow ashamed when the games they are playing are listed.

But then again, we all had to start somehow, and as long as they're enjoying it... more power to them.

When my mother saw Jade Raymond talking about Assassin's Creed on X-play first thing she says is, "Why's a pretty girl like that playing video games?" Didn't bother to correct her that Raymond was not only playing games, but making them.

My point is that they can write as many articles like this that they want and it's not going to change the perception of video games being a male-only hobby. The stereotype is too entrenched.

In Japan there were always kinda a lot of female gamers, but it seems most of them were "closet" gamers due to the general publics perception of gamers back in the days. At least now with the DS and everyone owning one folks can be a bit more open about it here.

In the US I never was too familiar with female gamers since man were they rare.

At least its good to see now that more people are openly getting into gaming since its not held in as much of a negative light as it used to be.

@Witzbold: At least its good to see now that more people are openly getting into gaming since its not held in as much of a negative light as it used to be.

Just yesterday the German Mini-stress of Justice announced that television, computer and the PlayStation™ are "poison".^^

@Black-Dog-Howls: Qouted. For. Truth.

And I'll get back to you all when someone proves that what goes on in the north somehow matters.

@FranUnFine: Not everyone wants a challenge when playing games. Many males and females look games as a nice way to pass time or do something different from everyday life. No need to be ashamed because majority of females prefer more casual games, it's just a taste difference. Not all males are "hardcore" gamers but in my opinion males have more pressure put on them by other males and society when it comes to choosing things that they like. If a game has a lot of gore, killing and half-naked females with huge breasts then it's a masculine game? Games with more colorful and simplistic graphics are for females/kids? Yes, games are quite often developed to get attention from certain groups but that does not make them less enjoyable by others..

It's just my opinion but.. It think that a lot of people live most of their life in some sort of denial. So called "hardcore" gamers will never admit that a "casual" game could be enjoyable as anger filled teens love to beat up prostitutes cursing fat plumbers at the same time..

@Dekko: It's not that they don't want challenge. It's that they don't want good games. probably because they don't know what a good game is.

Seriously! Sudoku on the DS! Why not Hotel Dusk? It's puzzles and riddles, too! Only in good!

@FranUnFine: Oi...thats no good. D:

@FranUnFine: This is where our opinions go to a very different directions. How do You define a good game? Because You like it? Because X number of reviewers and critics gave the game a X score? Do not get offended by my words, it's nothing personal but at the same time it's all personal.. You find Hotel Dusk enjoyable, good. Now try to imagine that someone else has the same feelings about Sudoku. Just because You do not enjoy it does not make it a bad game.

It's all about personal preference. It may be very hard to belive but somehow I think that even E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial for Atari 2600 had at least one fan that really loved that game. Okay, maybe not but I hope You understand the point that I was trying to make? :-)

@FranUnFine: Because believe it or no suduko is fun and cheap. Not everyone knows what hotel dusk is is all. Why don't you calm down and stop being "ashamed" and just game you know? What casual gamers play shouldn't effect you. In the meantime. It's my daily ikaruga time.

I've seen some ladies with DSes. Not very often, but I see them.

This may be controversial and offensive to some but what the hell, it's not Monday it is?

... Games work for girls on the level of escapism (World of Warcraft), distraction (Sims) and addiction (Tetris). Guys are into games for the same reasons but the male ability to think better abstractly in three dimensions means that certain games appeal more to them. For that reason I think guys get more out of most games than girls do.

Girls like the DS because many of the games are not in 3D. They don't tend to like FPS, not just because the subject matter does not appeal but because they get lost on the maps. Okay, I'm joking there, (and on second thoughts I should have posted this under a different name). However, I truly believe there is something fundamental in the way the two sexes think and view the world that makes video games - a filtered construction of how we relate to the world - more appealing to guys.

It's probably down to the fact that more guys make games. And because guys were the first to develop games, games have developed into genres that appeal to males. But what's the reason more girls don't make games? Probably because they came to gaming late (hopefully we'll now see an increase in girls developing games). Early games weren't very appealing to girls. I believe it had something to do with how primitive the early games were. The leap of logic required to imagine a poorly animated sprite was a character was too great for all but those that in today's terms we would call 'hardcore gamers'. And that group is almost exclusively male.

These days anyone can recognise what's on screen for what it is. And so the audience has become much broader. Also the fact that not every guy who's developing games is totally masculine goes some way to explaining how the games market has begun to increase it's appeal to the other sex.

Games appeal more to guys because they engage more than just our fantasies, senses and addictions. They connect with the way we think. And because we've been gaming longer and making games longer, our level of sophistication in interpreting them is increasing.

I don't think I'm right about everything here but I do think there's something in it.

@Dekko: @myd12: I'm perfectly calm.^^

If you say I'm not calm I'm gonna pop a cap in your knee. ;)

I know you're both right, that's why the very first sentence of my first post stated that I'm an elitist bitch.^^

Hmm... looks like mothers are gaming more and more. I think it's because they get to bond with their children more or something.
Mr. Ashcraft, is it true in Japan, housewives also watch tokusatsu programmes like "Kamen Rider" or your favorite "Ultraman?"

@GregoriusH: You missed an opportunity to educate mom there, bucko.

Not entirely surprising, though I would say that the 'hard core' (for want of a better term) of gamers do tend towards being male which can be seen in the slew of 'Durr-man-shoot-gun-go-boom-see-some-boobies' shooters that regularly do the rounds.

It's not surprising the Wii and DS got a mention though, I scoffed when they said the design of the Wii would encourage grandparents to get off their beaded seat covers and get gaming, how wrong could I have been...

@floppylobster: Girls don't tend to like FPS because they get lost in the maps?

Guess I'm not a girl. I always do the navigation for Beloved when we play our favorite genre, shooters. Wait a minute! I married a girl!!!!

It's not Ban Monday, it's lets mix up the genders Thursday. LOL

Seriously, I do think males and females approach games differently but I don't think it is quite this simple.

@Chilly Hollow:
(^ ^)

@floppylobster: Oddly it's a weee bit different than you'd think. Playing games actually massively reduces the difference in spacial thinking between males and females.

[www.news.utoronto.ca]

Guess I'll be moving to north-west England.

According to an online poll, 81 percent of women in England's North West (who go online and answer polls about gaming) are gamers.

@FranUnFine: Congratulations on being virtually the only other person ever I've heard mention that game. Can't believe it sank so quickly without a trace, guess there won't be another any time soon. I do agree that whilst it is 'elitist' it's depressing to see people buy the DS for Sudoku when you can pick up an electronic handheld sudoku thing (or DEAR GOD a book!) for considerably less. And yet people will restrict their library to this type of game and nothing more. That I always find unbelieveably stupid.

@TearsandScreams: Hotel Dusk was a great idea. It could be a little frustrating.. and I've seen much better puzzles, but I would surely buy a sequel... or maybe a port of Scratches...

Never mind Hotel Dusk, if you've got a DS you could be playing Monkey Island, Loom, Maniac Mansion... Now them's adventure games.

@Sinfjotle: Fair enough, so how do you explain video gaming became such a male dominated industry?

Having done some research essays I tend not to put too much faith in them. They'll always be someone coming out in a few months saying exactly the opposite thing.

I guess the best evidence I can produce to support my assumptions is the experience of my entire video game playing life (about 20 years). And that leads me to believe that girls just don't find video games as interesting as guys do. Yes they enjoy them and yes they get addicted to them but try to talk to them about gameplay mechanics and they're just not as interested. It's like talking to someone about film when all they notice is plot and character. While you want to also talk about plot, character, cinematography, direction, editing and the score.

@Chilly Hollow: I don't think it's that simple either. I was just trying to open a conversation on the topic. But it's pretty hard to summarise such a complex issue through a few posts on an internet forum.

Not that I want to talk to girls about game mechanics. I've always found the differences between sexes to be a good thing.

@floppylobster:

Most gamers I know don't spend a whole lot of time discussing gameplay mechanics (just as most moviewatchers I know don't spend a lot of time on cinematography). The breed of gamer that you'd even find commenting on a site like Kotaku is a very small subset of the tens of millions of gamers worldwide.

@Sinfjotle: In order to get that mental boost, girls need to play the game in first place which is what, I believe, was FloppyLobster's point.

@floppylobster: As much as I hate to admit it, I believe the male domination of the industry is a cultural matter. Early game devs came from programming or engineering backgrounds. These weren't exactly attracting lots of women in the 70's and 80's. I believe both are still disproportionate. Most female devs I've encountered are artists. I tend to attribute this to lower cultural and technological barriers.
As a side note, I don't believe that your mention of "girls just don't find video games as interesting as guys do." was meant as a sweeping generalization, but I'll bite anyways. I can assure you that this girl finds games much more interesting than many of my male contemporaries.

Don't furgit the kid's scrumpits. A-hyult.

@FranUnFine:

Agreed. I feel exactly the same way. These articles are especially annoying to me because I think that they just do more to perpetuate the stereotypes about female gamers and their games of Bejeweled, etc (not that I haven't enjoyed a game of Bejeweled now and then, myself).

I'm a gamer from Lancashire! Yeah! ...But not a female...oh well.

I don't think the big difference in males and females gaming have to do with their gender. I think it deals with the environment women are raised in. If a girl is brought up all flowers and curtsies, she's not going to be interested in manly video games. This is why the DS is acceptable for someone so feminine; it has generic things like sudoku. However, I think when women are raised with older brothers or with masculine companions, they develop a side that is compatible with gaming. Competitive, focused, etc.

On the topic of girls not being able to comprehend things in 3D (like the article earlier ([www.watercoolergames.org]) which floppylobster brings up, look at GamerChix on XBL or Fragdolls. I think they can comprehend those things perfectly, just like most of us women can. It depends on their interest, not ability.

being british, i can tell you that women in the northwest "play games" because they visit gambling sites and respond well to celebrity advertising for sudoku and similar cheap puzzle shit.

i used to live up there. the phrase 'working class' never fit anyone better. theres something powerfully tawdry about everyone north of birmingham. online bingo is the height of sophistication for them.

@floppylobster: As per your last comment up there, "Not that I want to talk to girls about game mechanics."....

I am starting to think you're actually threatened by the idea that a girl could go toe-to-toe with you as far as game interest is concerned. I'm a female gamer AND I have worked in the industry AND I like to talk about gameplay mechanics as much as I like to talk about why this movie sucked and that movie didn't. People can be interested in things and it doesn't have to be determined by their gender. Does it make me a tomboy because I enjoy playing Halo with friends as much as I like old school 2-D fighters....well I really don't think so.

You're pigeon-holing females by saying over-reaching comments like, "Girls like the DS because many of the games are not in 3D."

So all those millions of GUYS in, I dunno, the whole world who probably play overall more DS than women also don't like 3D games then?

@red: *Sigh*

I'm from north of Birmingham, and unfortunately your words don't appear to hold any sarcasm. Ridiculous predjudices and sweeping negative generalisations of millions of people really make you seem sophisticated, and intelligent. You see, that's sarcasm. By the, I'm 16, and yet I manage to string together a literal, punctuated sentence. And I'm from Preston. I also enjoy playing RPGs, complex FPS and all sorts of other genres. Please take your idiocy somewhere else.

--

Anyway, on topic, I just think the media here are latching onto an easy story. This particular publication isn't really the height of quality news or cutting features. As for female gamers, I've a good female friend who only has a sister as far as siblings are concerned, yet is no worse than myself at videogames, and understands 3D space perfectly well. Maybe she's not indicative of the most females, but I doubt it.

I still find it pretty hard to believe that a significant portion of females play games. At least not the "hardcore"/big budget console games that most guys play. I wish that it weren't the case, because as a long-time gamer that's one of the few interests I have through which to connect with someone. But playing through a 50-hour RPG or leaning all the nuances of an FPS control scheme is just a different kind of experience from a casual/freeware game.

@TearsandScreams: How is that any different to (to polarise the stereotype) the guy whose game library is entirely made up of FPSes and racing games? Anyway, Sudoku is a lot more practical on an electronic device than in a book and I'm yet to find one of those little electronic Sudoku things that isn't a piece of cheaply made crap. If I wanted to play Sudoku, I'd probably choose the DS version, too - the platform supports it far better than others do.

But yeah. As TheKat pointed out, it's just a matter of socialisation - and a matter that's very slowly changing. Looking at the kind of play that children do, traditionally girl-children are playing games that echo the domestic roles society has until recently defined as their destiny - so we're looking at Cooking Mama, Imagine!, Babiez, and other quiet, casual games that don't challenge the status quo. By contrast boy-children play more physically aggressive games and play with toy cars - which translates well to racing games and FPSes, which are comparitively far more 'hardcore' games.

Aand here's a standard reminder that this is a generalisation of traditional childrearing, with the understanding that it's changing dramatically - on the other hand, the kids who're getting a more gender-non-specific socialisation still have a few more years to go before they're going to be counted in these kinds of surveys or being too involved in the industry.

@killerbear: I'm not sure why I'd be threatened that someone shares my interests but you're absolutely right that interests are not determined by gender. But the overwhelming evidence of the balance of male and female with video games suggests there is a trend toward male.

I was not entirely serious regarding the 2D comment on DS, (I mentioned that but the reference could have been lost to the line about getting lost on maps, sorry). I would be interested in your opinion as to why you think more girls (yourself not included) aren't developing and playing the types of games you enjoy. Or do you think this is not the case?

Ferrick above makes the point that the male influence is a cultural thing. Stemming from engineering backgrounds. But my point goes further back than just video games. We can't just say there were more males engineering (although there were). We have to ask why were more males engineering. And we keep tracking back until we find there is a fundamental difference (although only slight) in how the sexes view/experience the world. But that slight difference, over thousands of years, has lead to video games being slightly more male dominated. They're an indication of our past culture and history.

@FranUnFine: I think mitt rommeny said something to that effect too.

And... Ditto on your first comment.

I'm a girl (actually a woman, cause I'm already 29) and I love games. But it doesn't mean I like "Barbie the Island princess".

My favourite games are Max Payne 1 and 2; Star Wars Knights of the old republic and Vampire the masquerade redemption. Oh, and once I've cried after playing Final Fantasy 5 (maybe because i was playing it for more tahn 30 straight.

I'm not much in FPS because most of these game genre down't have a good story too attract me (my killing combination would be a samurai sword and a catchy story).

Sometimes I do play The Sims 2, bt I also play Football Manager and NHL... Is my mind all messed up??

Anyway, games work for me the same way i thnk they work for guys. It's just about fun, relaxing and yes, escapism too.