killing's killing sure Nazis were bad but what a dick move from that guy.

Nope. Can't say I have, being the cold-hearted bastard that I am.

This is probably vastly ignorant of me but I noticed the allusion to the Iraq(Mistake) War but not once did I ever think the people I was shooting were Iraqis. Just some random Middle Easterners that didn't really have a country of their own. I kinda thought of them as the Taliban.

Whats the code to unlock the iraq war in CoD4? I guess I missed that part of the storyline.

I used to, but I've become a little too jaded to fully immerse myself in anything I control with thumbsticks.

Honestly? No. I mean come on...you aren't really killing Iraqis in COD. You're killing AI chars. in a game. Nazis? Well. Nazis, Jews, Demons, Prostitutes. Doesn't bother me any...I'm playing a VIDEOGAME.

No. There is no moral issue here.

Um actually its not the Iraq war? I mean.. has the guy played the game? Yes it takes place in the *middle east* but so what. It's not any worse than the WWII setting where all Germans are Nazi's... when we all know they weren't as the Nazi's were a POLITICAL PARTY.

Seems like the guy likes to read his own written (or typed) words more than "offering" anything.

//end rant

But isn't killing killing? Either way i couldn't even get past the single player because it always froze on me so i'm stuck with MP. Also about the Insurgents..

Either way off topic and not part of the morals of the game... This really need to get fixed because cod4 on the ps3 is pretty bad. Always getting disconnected. I'm not sure if its happening on the 360 other then the outage that's going on.

I think that is why most war games take place in the past or in the distant future against some martian zombie beasts. Having a war game take place in present time against real enemies brings a level of realness that people aren't really ready for in their games. Even if the violence isn't as realistic, the association with things that are going on hits too close to home for many.

Love the Nazi picture you picked for the post, by the way.

Guy needs to get off his pedestal. It makes him look like an ass.

Also of note, I hear no complaints about the Ruskies, they are in CoD4... Oh thats right, after nazi's, Russians are also an "A-OKAY" enemy that we can shoot and not feel regret...

I believe the spectrum of enemies goes from nazi to Native American... CoD falls somewhere in the middle, so its okay I guess...

Can't wait for CoD6:Rape and Pillage, Going to be a major controversy with that one...

Maybe my memory is a bit hazy... it's been a month or so since I played through the game... but doesn't most of the story take place in Russia? I recall a level or two in an arabic country, but for the most part the game deals with a fictional Russian ultra nationalist. Is it morally acceptable to kill fictional Russians?

I could be completely wrong since I played the single player campaign for only an hour or so (I'm mainly multiplayer only), but I don't think the story ever takes you to Iraq. It's some other middle eastern country, but not Iraq.

lol Scazza

I want to kill Iraqis. Iraqi babies. That have grown. Into men. With AK-47s.

Because COD4 made me do it.

Meh. Its a video game, get over it.

Nope, no moral issues. Killing is killing. Whether it is a Nazi, or a Jihad!

I think the issue is how one absorbs themselves and is influenced by society.

If WWII was to happen in this day and age, I think the same apprehension would be taken towards that war as well.

Different times indeed.

But I am not going to discuss this further, since I don't agree with ANY war, but I do understand that sometimes, things have to happen.

America isn't as pro-patriotic anymore, like it was in the 30s-40s.

@Scazza:

You know i wonder if they made a game in where the russians or another country was against the states. Things would blow up and the government will find a way to intervene and come up all this bull shit.

Killing is killing. Period. I fail to see how this jackhole teaches his son MORALS by KILLING. Sure, they're Nazis and deserve it, but fundamentally, you're telling the kid "It's OK to kill. Maybe not everyone, but THESE guys, sure."

Personally, coming from a Miami citizen (him being from Ft. Lauderdale), I think he's full of it. I loved the whole Iraq War bit he threw in, only to further push his opinion/agenda about it. That was lovely. It's OK to kill Russians, but it's BAD to kill "Iraqis."

On that note...isn't the country that's being alluded supposed to be Iran anyways? Can anyone verify this in the briefings? They give you a satellite view of the terrain and where the fighting is, so there should be some way of distinguishing which country it's supposed to be (I can't be bothered to do it as I lent my friend COD4).

I don't have a moral problem killing any group of humans. What makes killing Nazi's easier than killing Iraqis? They've just been demonized longer, is all. You think every poor German sod in the trenches wanted to put the Jews in camps? Most of them didn't even know about those until after the war. Most just wanted 3 square, or thought expanding Germany's borders was the only way to help their families.

I take a much more pragmatic approach to morality: if you are in the way of what I want, you can fucking die. It's self serving, easy to remember, and gosh darnit, it WORKS.

I think the problem is that this guy's building a discretion as to who's acceptable to kill and not.

@Sollus: You would think it was some random "Middle Easterners" if you say, didn't have a tlas, globe, or the internet. Otherwise, you'd probably know it was Saudi Arabia.

As for the moral concerns, I think the game treated the subject with dignity so long as you were playing as the SAS. The whole "hoo-rah", hip hop music moments as the USMC however, was either a scathing commentary on how casual Americans (typically, not always) are with the concept of war, or otherwise was just a confirmation of this fact.

I think someone with a Support Our Troops bumper sticker might attack me here...:S

I don't support the war either but it's a video game I just kill anyone I see, friend or foe, all that matters is I'm the last man standing.

COD 4 is set in an alternate universe though, it has virtually no relevance to our world unless of course the Russians really ARE secretly conniving with a maniacal Middle Eastern dictator.

Er...I might be mistaken, but I've played through the campaign a few times and they have NEVER referred to the enemies as Iraqis. It's a game, it's fictional, they could be called Klingons and it wouldn't make a difference.

CoD4 takes place in a fictional war in the Middle East after (SPOILER WARNING) a dictator stages a military coup and poses a WMD threat. Where did this reporter come up with the idea that the plot had anything to do with the war in Iraq?

@shindokie: Ya know, World In Conflict does a good job of that, except they're communist. but what defines an enemy, really? The government...and really? There IS no moral problem when I'm squeezing the right trigger on my 360 controller. Who am I killing? Computer code? OH MY TO HELL I GO.

With that being said : "Lets do this" *continues playing groundwar*

Ralph didn't pay too much attention to the story in CoD 4 did he? The events are obviously inspired by the conflict in the Middle East as nothing is created in a vacuum, but the conflict in the game is not the current Iraq War.

I'm guessing he never played Desert Combat.

I have to say, that Indiana Jones pic made my night.

Shit, even if there was a game involving punting babies through flaming rings over molten tar to land in a Blendtec™ blender I still wouldn't be morally concerned. Wait, shit.

@ChickenOfTheSea:
b (^ ^)

easyer to kill nazis because that man is denying the present, he doesn't want to look and know about that is happening somewhere else then his own contry.

In playing this game I never thought of them as Iraqis either. Just as middle easterns working for Al-Asad. Even while discussing this game with friends, we always referred to the as Al-Asad's men or The Terrorists. I think even when the nuke goes off it happens much closer to the boarder/in Suadi Arabia than in Iraq. I understands Infinity Ward's reasoning to use people from the Middle East. It is one of the most unstable areas in the world, besides parts of Africa, and provides a realism that can be understood, especially here in America.

One more thing...

I don't think this was in Iraq, because these terrorist actually had weapons of mass destruction.

@plantationace:

More like to the Matrix, but honestly what defines an enemy. We have our own morals and an enemy is something that people individually decide in the end. My enemy can be your friend and so forth. As long as we have a government so "speak" for us the world is going to assume they are "our" enemies. *sigh*

@Fadakar: lol well honestly I'd play that game. It'd be funny as hell...

It's not called "Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare" for nothing.

rolls eyes

Unfortunately, killing's killing, no matter which way you throw it.

Crysis killed Koreans, that's morally wrong, and we're not even in a war with them, right?

Moreover, CoD4 also killed Russians- there was the cold war with them, but no one whines about that? Couldn't that have more effect than a war that's already happening?

Oh wait, sorry it's fiction, it doesn't matter. Same meat different gravy, unfortunately.

The whole killing nazis thing really baffles me. Yes Nazi Germany was evil but the soldiers in the regular army who fought and died in the fields were not all for the Nazi cause. Many, MANY were simply following the course their country chose whether it be thanks to the propaganda machine or because they were pressured into service. It especially got worse once the Allies and Russia started getting close to Germany itself, what person wouldn't choose to defend their country as they see their cities bombed and hear about how Russians are treating Germans?

Killing SS officers and Gestapo men and others in the higher echelons of the Nazi regime, yes that is morally easier by far. But the common soldier was no different than the American soldier being fed racist propaganda about the Japanese, they believed in their country and they died fighting for their loved ones just as much as anyone else.

I just wish people would realize that WWII was not as black and white as it seemed. Even as the most 'morally correct' war probably ever fought it had a ton of complexity all the same.

How is this any worse than killing "innocent" NPCs in any of the GTA games?

In some ways the original COD was f'd up because you were fighting scenarinos based on a real war. Things real people people did, made fake and for fun/challenge.

Its as harmless as watching any of the sh*t movies about this war out there currently.

ralphie, don't worry about your son going to war, if he's anything like you, he'll end up being one of those male field hockey players. whining about a video game? whatever happened to real men?

@shindokie: True, very true. It doesn't make any sense for the reporter to assume that the enemies in the game are Iraqi...the game is so vague and unassuming about WHERE you are that even I was guessing! And I never even thought twice about Iraq...more like Iran or Egypt...

I didn't much care for the modern setting of CoD4. The WWII ones felt more epic, like you were taking part in a larger struggle. CoD4 just didn't have that same feel. Everything was smaller; less impactful.

But I didn't have any issues with the morality. It's war; it's inherently senseless, but once you're in it, you're in it, and there's no choice but to try to make it through to the other side. And there's only one way to do that...

What about in the CoD4 multiplayer, where gamers (mostly Americans and Brits it seems, and some with the clan tag "USMC") play half the games as Iraqis/insurgents killing US/UK soldiers? They don't seem to mind...

This is ridiculous... CoD4 is making a political statement as profound ad Viva Pinata is trying to warn against the dangers of Sour Cocoadiles eating your Swannanas. The easy connections are there, but I mean come on, nowhere does CoD name a country, nationality, or cause for the Middle Eastern foes. The Russians, are russians, but I just got the impression of, "generic middle east bad guys."

Just because the game used WW2 as it's backdrop doesn't mean that CoD4 is meant to be as clearcut. Furthermore, being that this is fantasy, the studio get's to write it's own story for the bad guys, and doesn't have to pertain to the real world. The end all is, you're stopping guys who are willing to use nukes to end America for reasons such as, "Our so-called leaders prostituted is to the west." You can argue the morality of the cause up and down, but the end all be all is, it's a military FPS with a modern setting, and that's it.

If you want to start reaching for political or social statements from military games, you'd have better luck with Battlefield 2142 or Frontlines.

So basically my point was that playing COD4 is no different than playing the last three COD games, at least morally.

It's a video game.

First off, this dude needs to cram it. It's a damn video game. I don't care if they're Nazis, Commies, Jihadis, Canadians, Japanese, or rabid Australian kangaroos, I'm gonna mow them down.

Second, that Indiana Jones picture is awesome.

Third, who's up for some Call of Duty 4? :-p